Northern Rock deposits sold to PTSB

So Northern Rock are pulling out of Ireland? That's Northern Rock, Ulster-owned First Active, INBS, Anglo, Pfizer International Finance, BoSI-owned Halifax and BoSI itself who have all stopped taking deposits in Ireland since the crisis hit. Hence, far less competition for deposits in Ireland.

It seems at this stage that Northern Rock are still accepting new deposits.

With the future of PTSB itself, also very uncertain, the deposits could yet wind up being transfered again to a different bank if PTSB closes or is merged.

Also, I wonder how happy NR customers are now that their deposits are been transfered from the, AAA rated, UK government backed NR, to the near-junk rated Irish state, or be it, soon to be 99% state owned PTSB.
 
Hi Ciarán

Interesting points.

However, PTSB has been so hugely overcapitalized that it must be one of the strongest banks in Europe. It will survive on its own without a government guarantee.

Of course, the government may force it to sell its UK mortgage book at a loss, so it may not be as safe as the numbers suggest.

Brendan
 
Brendan:

There appear to be better results comimg from the UK - and you are right about PTSB - pity the savaged shareholders..
 
Hi Brendan,

From a capitalisation perspective, yes, the most overcapitalised bank in Europe but this is based on historical stress tests from earlier this year. There are already indications that the baseline assumptions in the stress tests for criteria such as economic growth, house price declines and mortgage arrears were overly optimistic. Hence, it may not have this badge of honour for long as arrears on the PTSB's huge loss making tracker mortgage base grow.

From a liquidity perspective, 200% loans to deposits pre-NR deposit acquisition, and 99% state owned, PTSB, would not survive with the billions and billions of emergency liquidity provided by the CBI and the ECB. It is dependent on this for day to day survival. There is an intransient link between the state and PTSB.

Ciarán
 
Kind of rubbishes the argument put forward by many people when discussing on whether we should have let all our banks fail that there are loads of foreign institutions lining up to enter the market to replace them. I am hearing that there is another large player looking to exit as well.
 
Deposits in NR what now?

Hi all,

Sold my house last year and was lucky to leave with a modest sum. Have been building on this over the past 18 months or so and have approx. 50k in savings.
Moved to NR in the first place as I was not confident that we could avoid a sovereign default and therefore the bank guarantee would be meaningless. Problem is I'm back to square now.
Not too sure what i should do next. The intention is that the deposits would be built up to 65-70k with a view to repurchasing when the time is right. This is the core family money (wife, two young children and a baby on the way); I have no faith in the security of the Irish banking system and have little more in the future of the euro.
Sh
 
Deposits in NR what now

Apologies; writing on a damaged iPhone!!
Looking for advice as to what to do next; should I allow this money to be absorbed into Ptsb or as I'm inclined to do love it to another uk account or another denomination such as the Swiss franc or Norwegian krone.
Any and all advice appreciated!
Tj.
 
triplej

i've got savings in NR too...i'll be moving them out of PTSB and into somebody like Nationwide UK -Ireland or opening a German savings ac (see thread in deposits section )

no way in hell am i leaving my savings in an irish state owned bank
 
How "over-capatialized" is PTSB?
Irish Life & Permanent has reported a pre-tax loss of €349m for the first half of this year, mainly due to loan losses at its Permanent TSB banking business .
I am feeling very uneasy about my savings in NR being transfered to PTSB. I have little faith/trust in the Irish Banking system.
I think a full and frank discussion on how safe Irish banks are for their high street customers is necessary. I am also looking at opening a non-resident deposit account in other european countries such as Germany/France.
 
While agreeing that nothing in life is certain I see no real risk to any savings in the Irish banks and financial institutions backed by Government guarantee. While most people are be-moaning the downturn in the economy and blaming the Banks for not lending those same people are transferring their savings abroad which indirectly is impeeding the rate of economic recovery here. The Bank guarantee is backed by the ECB as evidenced by the significant levels of liquidity it is putting into the Irish banks to replace the fleeing deposits. A further bank failure here or in any EC country would cause economic chaos in Europe and whether it likes it or not the EC and ECB are tied in to ensuring that deposits are protected. While my level of funds are low I will consistently keep them in this country as I earned the money here and would like to see these funds being used to protect our own economy. Again I see the risk of loss as being negligible and there is too much scaremongering on this issue which further damages our economy.
 
Sunny said:
Kind of rubbishes the argument put forward by many people when discussing on whether we should have let all our banks fail that there are loads of foreign institutions lining up to enter the market to replace them. I am hearing that there is another large player looking to exit as well.
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't rubbish the argument. The reason foreign banks are leaving is because they cannot compete with businesses that are artificially kept alive by state funding and support. It is not a level playing field for them. There are banks in Ireland that are pretty much bankrupt but are paying 4% interest annually, while their mortgage books are losing millions. The only reason they can do this is because of state support. It is the government interventions that are causing foreign banks to leave.
 
Chris said:
No, it doesn't rubbish the argument. The reason foreign banks are leaving is because they cannot compete with businesses that are artificially kept alive by state funding and support. It is not a level playing field for them. There are banks in Ireland that are pretty much bankrupt but are paying 4% interest annually, while their mortgage books are losing millions. The only reason they can do this is because of state support. It is the government interventions that are causing foreign banks to leave.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with that. Banks all over Europe are getting State support. Banks have no interest in foreign markets. End of story. I work for one and recently tried to get an allocation of capital to the operation here to expand a business line for domestic lending into Irish and UK companies because margins were becoming very attractive. I was laughed at by the CFO. I don't think our financial institution will last past 2012 in Ireland and it has nothing to do with not being able to compete with the Irish banks. It has everything to do with the allocation of capital and risk returns.

There are no French, German, UK banks looking to come into a Country with 14% unemployment, a dysfunctional property market and in the midst of a fiscal crisis.
 
A couple of points:

1 - PTSB savings rates are MUCH lower for demand deposit accounts than NR- will PTSB still offer the same rate as NR? Doubt it

2- The deposit protection scheme is all well and good -you'll get your money back in the event of a default....but it wont be immediately...you could be waiting 6mths or more
 
I am also considering moving my savings from Northern Rock as the main reason why I opened the account was because of the AAA rating and UK government guarantee. As I have a mortgage with the AIB, I was thinking of moving all of the money into the AIB based on the idea that if my savings were at risk in the future, at least my debt could be written off against my savings. I don't really know if this even makes sense, but surely it makes more sense to hold savings in the same bank as ones debt?
The other question I have is this. The AIB are offering 3.45% on a fixed sum for one year. When the forms arrived, they were from Anglo Irish. If my money was in this account, is it the same as having it in the AIB and would my first point above still stand?
 
daheff said:
A couple of points:

1 - PTSB savings rates are MUCH lower for demand deposit accounts than NR- will PTSB still offer the same rate as NR? Doubt it
Click to expand...

Not true. they both offer 2.50%. They are both low.

PTSB have much higher term deposit rates.

daheff said:
2- The deposit protection scheme is all well and good -you'll get your money back in the event of a default....but it wont be immediately...you could be waiting 6mths or more
Click to expand...

HA !! If the government ever has to pay out on 100 billion EUR in deposits in all irish banks you will never see your money.
 
TrueBlue1150 said:
I am also considering moving my savings from Northern Rock as the main reason why I opened the account was because of the AAA rating and UK government guarantee. As I have a mortgage with the AIB, I was thinking of moving all of the money into the AIB based on the idea that if my savings were at risk in the future, at least my debt could be written off against my savings. I don't really know if this even makes sense, but surely it makes more sense to hold savings in the same bank as ones debt?
The other question I have is this. The AIB are offering 3.45% on a fixed sum for one year. When the forms arrived, they were from Anglo Irish. If my money was in this account, is it the same as having it in the AIB and would my first point above still stand?
Click to expand...

Debt can be offset against savings by a bank, yes. This is common in a wind-down like the Danish bank wind-downs.

AIB pay 4.25% for a 1 year term via their EBS subsidiary .

Sunny said:
Has nothing to do with that. Banks all over Europe are getting State support. Banks have no interest in foreign markets. End of story. I work for one and recently tried to get an allocation of capital to the operation here to expand a business line for domestic lending into Irish and UK companies because margins were becoming very attractive. I was laughed at by the CFO. I don't think our financial institution will last past 2012 in Ireland and it has nothing to do with not being able to compete with the Irish banks. It has everything to do with the allocation of capital and risk returns.

There are no French, German, UK banks looking to come into a Country with 14% unemployment, a dysfunctional property market and in the midst of a fiscal crisis.
Click to expand...

+1. Well said.
 
CiaranT said:
Not true. they both offer 2.50%. They are both low.

PTSB have much higher term deposit rates.
Click to expand...

where do you see them offering 2.5%? As per their website the closest to a demand deposit i can see is their SIGNATURE DEPOSIT on call variable ac -which has a rate of 1.25% Gross

www[dot]permanenttsb[dot]ie/media/permanenttsb/pdfdocuments/depositrates/permanent-tsb-Deposit-Interest-Rates.pdf
 
Pity I'm not as good at the lottery, I was with PostBank, Halifax and Irish Nationwide, all failed, which the latter has gone to the PTSB, I still do not know what interest I am getting, they seemed evasive in the local branch, and of course my share account which went on for years turned out worthless, no thanks to Fingelton
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top