New minimum distance for cars passing cyclists to be introduced.

[Brendan Burgess]

The government has announced new regulations as a result of the "Stayin' Alive at 1.5" campaign.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...ce-new-law-making-close-passes-illegal-371166

It will be 1.5 meters on roads with a speed limit of 50kmh

and 1 metre on roads with a speed limit of less than 50 kmh.

The penalty will be €80 and three penalty points.

I wonder would it be possible for cyclists to take private prosecutions with cycling cam evidence? If so,that would put a stop to the dangerous driving very quickly.

15 cyclists were killed on Irish roads in 2017.

The Road Safety Authority says that there is no evidence that a minimum cycling distance will help.

Brendan

 

[Boyd]

As a cyclist, I find it hard to see what this will achieve. I don't have any camera on my bike, nor do I want to record every single cycling journey I take. Even if I did, how would it even be measured on a moving camera? What if the driver is 1.7 metres away and the cyclist veers to the right, bringing the driver within the 1.5 metre limit? Who is responsible there? Many places where I cycle in Dublin are so narrow that 1.5 metres is the width of the entire driving lane! I think this is unworkable and unpolice-able.

 

[odyssey06]

Seems like the government opting for the free option of putting a new law on the books instead of real resources for policing of all the laws we already have and if observed would make roads safer for all users.

 

[cremeegg]

I do not understand where the RSA is coming from. If motorists left enough room when overtaking cyclists there would be far less accidents.

As a motorists it can be very difficult to judge how far is a metre out. Perhaps lines should be painted on the road.

 

[odyssey06]

I do not understand where the RSA is coming from. If motorists left enough room when overtaking cyclists there would be far less accidents.

Would there? When I read about the tragic incidents involving cyclists they don't typically involve overtaking situations, but maneuvering - turning - junctions - roundabouts.
Maybe the RSA are looking at accident statistics - but sometimes no evidence means we just haven't established it yet. And I understand close call overtakings can be very stressful for cyclists.

 

[Leo]

Even if I did, how would it even be measured on a moving camera?

There are some guides online on how to calculate distances on such video evidence. But practically, I can really only see this being used in cases where there is contact, if at all.

There was some suggestions that this and the poorly worded amendment on mandatory high viz for pedestrians on unlit roads was designed to filibuster the overall bill and the harsher drink-driving penalties.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Drivers often drive too close to cyclists. It's easy enough to see on a recording.

If someone drives at 1.4m instead of 1.5m, presumably no action would be taken.

But if a driver speeds up and brushes by a cyclist, they should lose their license. A recording will show that easily.

Brendan

 

[noproblem]

If a motorist catches cyclists breaking traffic lights and cycling on footpaths, etc, will it suffice for prosecutions in court?

 

[MrEarl]

Drivers often drive too close to cyclists. It's easy enough to see on a recording.

If someone drives at 1.4m instead of 1.5m, presumably no action would be taken.

But if a driver speeds up and brushes by a cyclist, they should lose their license. A recording will show that easily.

Brendan

Hello Mr. Burgess,

I'd agree with much of that, but let us also consider what reason the motorist may have had for brushing up against a cyclist - if we take your example. If the motorist did it as part of a move to try and save themselves from say a collision with another oncoming vehicle, then it's hardly a clear cut case is it ?

In principal, I think that cameras on bikes are a good idea to help record evidence, I just hope that they record the entire view and not just the limited vantage point of the cyclist, so everyone gets a fair result from video evidence that may be provided.

Out of interest, do the cyclists here think that there is capacity on a lot of roads around Dublin city (for example), to facilitate 1.5mtr of space between cyclists and cars, or say even bigger vehicles like buses, trucks etc ? ...If we take that question half a step further, what if there's a cyclist on both sides of the road, so there's then a potential 3mtr overall requirement, do you again think there's sufficient space ? Personally, I don't think there is on quite a few of our roads.

 

[MrEarl]

If a motorist catches cyclists breaking traffic lights and cycling on footpaths, etc, will it suffice for prosecutions in court?

Absolutely not !

You are forgetting the first rule of cycling ... the cyclist is always in the right, so does not have to respect the law, rules of the road, good safe practice or consider others

 

[Tebbit]

It is reasonable to expect a car to pull out well when passing a cyclist and in my view its what most drivers already do . after all. Most normal people are not looking to knock anyone down !! However I think this is a silly law - who's going to police or measure it?? There are already problems on certain roads passing cyclists especially those two abreast or more- I'm thinking here of narrow enough but busy roads. Perhaps a law should be made that on roads of a certain width cyclists should be in single file???? I've come around a bend on a narrow road near me and come on cyclists cycling two abreast on a bend!!!!! After all its no bother pass cyclists on a wide road. And I can't see how any car will pass with a meter or one and a half meter gap in the city when its busy?? Also it makes me think I'd better get a dash cam

 

[Brendan Burgess]

If a motorist catches cyclists breaking traffic lights and cycling on footpaths, etc, will it suffice for prosecutions in court?

If a cyclist engages in dangerous behaviour, they should be prosecuted, and the person affected should be able to take a case.

The cyclist who crashed into the gates at Sydney Parade Dart Line should be identified and prosecuted.

There is no comparison between a cyclist crashing a light and a car driving very close to a cyclist. Cars frequently kill pedestrians, cyclists and other car drivers.

Cyclists rarely, if ever, even injure anyone. Mr Earl had to go back almost 20 years to find a case of a cyclist killing a pedestrian.

Brendan

 

[noproblem]

Don't get me wrong Brendan and what you're saying is mostly correct. However, cyclists (some) don't do the fraternity any good at all with their bad habits and their sense of immunity from rules and regulations. I've no doubt this gets on motorists nerves and even though it's very wrong they tend to drive in an aggressive manner when cyclists come into view and are in their way. I cycle myself but not in a city and I try to avoid towns, etc and don't have a problem, but I see it quite often when in towns, that's where I also see the breaking of lights, bikers flying down footpaths and that type of stuff. Maybe if everyone started behaving properly and respecting the laws that are already there we might them see a change of attitude from motorists. As it stands right now a car can be identified easily, a bike cannot be. Will we see a charge coming in for bikes, eg, licence and identity tag? I can see it coming.

 

[johnwilliams]

i was visiting relations in another town while back and was walking to a local shop 2 cyclists/wheelers coming towards me on the main road 2 abreast, one right in against footpath fine other one out on the white line ,car behind was trying to pass out, would break that 1.5 metre rule doing so,(no cars opposite direction straight stretch road)
problem is every time car tried to pass, the outside wheeler would move out over white line blocking them ,didnt have my phone with me or i would have stuck it up on you tube

 

[PGF2016]

If nothing else this law will bring to the attention of drivers the need to ensure there's adequate space before attempting to overtake a cyclist.

For every anecdote of poor cyclist behaviour there are many anecdotes of poor behaviour of car / van drivers. People are the problem, not the mode of transport.

 

[roker]

The motorist can only pull out as far as a single or double white line, otherwise he breaks another rule, the road may not be wide enough to give the cyclist 1.5 m

 

[PGF2016]

The motorist can only pull out as far as a single or double white line, otherwise he breaks another rule, the road may not be wide enough to give the cyclist 1.5 m

The motorist shouldn’t be overtaking on a road with a single or double white line. The lines are there for a reason.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

the road may not be wide enough to give the cyclist 1.5 m

That is the whole point of the new regulation - he waits until the road is wide enough.

I also suggest that cycling two abreast on roads in urban areas should be prohibited. Except for parents and kids.

Brendan

 

[newtothis]

As a motorists it can be very difficult to judge how far is a metre out. Perhaps lines should be painted on the road.

The evidence is that where there are such lines (cycle lanes) they are frequently ignored by both cyclists and motorists......

 

[Leper]

Once again, another great thread of the Cyclist -V- Motorist -V- Pedestrian. More laws, rules and regulations and only little Common Sense.

How will the new regulations be policed? I suppose with a band of cyclists representatives patrolling narrow roads armed with helmet cameras.

How will the motorist react? Again with dash-cameras front and back.

And what about the pedestrian? Another opportunity to introduce cameras.

The likely upshot of all this:- (a) Insurance companies to make it compulsory for all motorists to use dash cams. (b) More stupid television programmes with cranky cyclists patrolling roads looking for problems.

Overall Solution:- Educate the motorists, cyclists, pedestrians that all of us must share our roads. We can use common sense. We can lead by example. We can stop waving fists, showing the finger, stop jay walking and generally improve our attitude.

PS:- Brendan mentioned earlier that cyclists cause little or no injuries because of accidents. Tell that to the eastern european girl mowed down in Cork by a troop of uncaring cyclists who thought (and still think) they own every road, greenway, footpath in the country. The girl's injuries although not life threatening were horrendous.

PPS:- Please Guys, Use Common Sense. You'll feel better. You will be an example to others.