New Ireland charging AMC of 2.75% on AVCs!

The plot thickens. It hadn't occurred to me that Cornmarket
A word of caution. You haven't mentioned Cornmarket but you did say you are PS. Also Gemini did not actually confirm those fees but did its own speculation. Do you get updates on your AVCs from Cornmarket or any such source? They would consider that part of the service.

This post crossed with the last 2.
 
Cornmarket isn't mentioned anywhere, but neither is any broker, only the actual provider, yet I'm sure a large public sector organisation must use a broker, and this might account for part of the charges, as suggested yesterday by Duke of Marmalade.

I know an employer that uses New Ireland as group AVC provider, with no broker.

The New Ireland agent/employee visits the employer.
 
Do you get updates on your AVCs from Cornmarket or any such source?
No, I get an annual statement directly from the provider - it only arrives three months after the actual 12-month period covered by the statement. The charges are just listed: the actual detailed calculation of the charges is not shown and I've tried but have never been able to get a proper explanation of how they are calculated, i.e. on what figures the charges are applied. Eventually they just wear you down and you give up, which is probably just what they hope for.
 
I've tried but have never been able to get a proper explanation of how they are calculated, i.e. on what figures the charges are applied. Eventually they just wear you down and you give up, which is probably just what they hope for.
Can't you get this information via your HR? If not then I would write to them requesting this information. If they don't provide it I'd make a formal complaint. If they still don't provide the information I'd request a final response letter and tell them that I'm going to the FSPO. This might focus their mind. In practice the FSPO could take ages to deal with such a complaint but it mightn't need to go that far.
 
This is what I've been told: "2.75% Regular Premium management fee and 0.75% Single Premium. The charge is on the value of the fund at any given time".

I don't think that this is correct. Not even Cornmarket charges these fees.

I suspect that this is the initial fee you are being charged so that if you contribute €100 a month, they charge you €2.75 initial charge. And if you make a single premium contribution of €1,000, they charge you €7.50

The annual management charge is different and is on the value of the fund.

Brendan
 
Yes, but see the text below from the OP:



This is what I've been told: "2.75% Regular Premium management fee and 0.75% Single Premium. The charge is on the value of the fund at any given time".

We are also given this example, which I don't understand at all:
"Bid/offer spread of 5% on unit prices. Example:€250 per month, gets 101% allocation , before the 5% bid/offer is applied, this in effect means that member gets (5% of 101=95.95 or 96%) 96% of their Gross AVC contributions invested OR, alternative way of looking at it is that there is a contribution charge/fee of 4% ( not invested)."
There is also a monthly admin fee of €3.50.
With a total amount invested over 6 years of about €80K, I guess I would have expected to make more than €1800 on it, but maybe I was unduly optimistic, and I know 2022 was a bad year, and the type of fund was, I think, based on a risk level of 3 - 4, so maybe my expectations were unrealistic. I do think, though, that the charges are high?

I think there may be a bonus at the end of 5%.





I suggested to the OP that the OP gets exact clarification about the charges, as 2.75% AMC is very high.

But the text above does refer to "2.75%....management fee....on the value of the fund"
 
I know an employer that uses New Ireland as group AVC provider, with no broker
So in that case, all of the charges would go to New Ireland, and if they were the charges as previously described, they are substantial, and one would have to wonder how they can be justified, especially if the employer was interested in getting a good deal for its employees.
Yes, but it does not appear to be a brochure wording. It is what someone told him.
The example I quoted that starts with "bid offer spread" is taken directly from my employer's document on AVC Charging Structures, to be found on the employer's website, and that document is headed "Group AVC Scheme - Charging Structure for Regular contributions".
The quote "This member is on the Finance plan so it’s a 2.75% Regular Premium management fee and 0.75% Single Premium. The charge is on the value of the fund at any given time" is from an email sent to me by the AVC provider's local representative (who visits the workplace), on foot of a query I sent them. I believe that particular message was relayed to him by headquarters in Dublin.
I went through all my annual statements last night. Each one shows a recurring "premium charge", initially about €960, then about €440 each year thereafter. Then there are "fund-related charges" which appeared in Year 3 and are increasing each year. I don't yet have the most up-to-date statement (it's due soon) but on the last one, the fund-related charge was nearly €1400. It's hard to figure out how exactly it's calculated, because in there somewhere is a calculation based on the value of the fund, but how that fund value is calculated (considering gains, deductions, etc) is another matter. It's a head-wreck.
 
Each one shows a recurring "premium charge", initially about €960, then about €440 each year


These look like entry charges / contribution charges / the inverse of allocation rates.

Please calculate these as a % of the annual contributions, and reply here with the answer.

Although the €42 pa policy fee must also go somewhere.


the fund-related charge was nearly €1400

This is the AMC.

Please calculate it as a % of the fund value, and reply here with the answer.
 
It would be great if you could provide a (suitably redacted) image of your statement showing the charges.
I jotted down notes last night and have outlined them in post 55, but I will retrieve the statement later if that's more helpful, which I think it will be. I just don't have it here with me right now.
This will remain the case until you get a clear schedule of the charges that apply to your account.
Someone is going to review the statement/charges for me as a first step. If necessary, I will certainly go back to the provider and look for more information ... unfortunately the authority you mentioned is already involved in relation to a separate issue.
 
Someone is going to review the statement/charges for me as a first step
But, unless I've missed something, you still don't seem to have a clear schedule of charges that definitely apply to your account and not some vague comments about charging structures that may or may not apply?
unfortunately the authority you mentioned is already involved in relation to a separate issue.
I don't understand. Do you mean that you have a complaint in with the FSPO about your pension provider? If so then that doesn't prevent you from opening a separate complaint about something else.
 
This member is on the Finance plan so it’s a 2.75% Regular Premium management fee and 0.75% Single Premium. The charge is on the value of the fund at any given time
That can’t be right. It is not possible to have different charges on the same fund as all units in that fund would suffer the same charge.
 
Please calculate these as a % of the annual contributions, and reply here with the answer.

Although the €42 pa policy fee must also go somewhere.
I've figured out that the premium charge is 4%, which is as expected.
And the €42 is listed separately.
This figure, calculated as you suggest, has been going up each year, from 1.8% in Year 3 to 2.1% most recently. I'm hoping to get some clarification on this soon.
.
So you are absolutely right - this would not be greatly superior to investing in cash (ignoring charges)
Thank you. This is good to hear.
not some vague comments about charging structures that may or may not apply
Well, they are not vague exactly, they are directly from the horse's mouth, but they don't stack up with what I see on my statements. If the person reviewing it can't make sense of it either, then I will have to ask the provider for full details (I think I will be doing that anyway).

And yes, unfortunately. A very frustrating saga.
 
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