If you have little choice but to do something is it not then sensible to do it?
It would be nice if nobody had armies but when a dictator who invades his neighbour has a big army is it not then sensible for his other neighbours to have armies?
Money to be spent on new defence forces uniforms
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
- Start date
It would be nice if nobody had armies but when a dictator who invades his neighbour has a big army is it not then sensible for his other neighbours to have armies?
At one stage we'd only one guy who was qualified to load the 30 calibre gun on the ship (its only weapon)... and he was out sick.
Or, let him who desires peace prepare for war, as Publius Flavius put it.
Wow, was that back in the Minesweeper days? Surely the later PVs had 40mm guns?
I checked. It's actually a 76mm cannon that is deployed on the larger ships. From what I know there was only one guy qualified to load that gun in the entire navy.
The Army Rangers Wing of the Irish Defence Forces jumped out of helicopters and boarded that boat near Cork with our largest drug seizure. If you were to look at drugs and the undersea cables only we need radar, sonar, boats and planes to patrol the huge area of Irish waters. That's still maintaining our 100% neutrality.
I don't want to see a lot of money spent on defence but I realise a lot has to be spent and happen to get even some basics. If you go and buy a plane or boat it will sit on a runway or on a pier gathering dust.
They need huge infrastructure and related services and support to make them work. You need aircraft hangers to store and service these planes, have air traffic controllers and these need accommodation, services, offices, and all the other facilities that go with them, etc. Then you need facilities to train pilots and crew, and all the services they need. It's the same case for a naval base. A lot of money has to be spent on defence mostly because we've ignored it for so long. If we had facilities for maintaining and fixing boats and planes we wouldn't have to invest as much.
EDIT:
Looks like they're putting money into this https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/...t-aerodrome-to-house-growing-air-corps-fleet/
I don't want to see a lot of money spent on defence but I realise a lot has to be spent and happen to get even some basics. If you go and buy a plane or boat it will sit on a runway or on a pier gathering dust.
They need huge infrastructure and related services and support to make them work. You need aircraft hangers to store and service these planes, have air traffic controllers and these need accommodation, services, offices, and all the other facilities that go with them, etc. Then you need facilities to train pilots and crew, and all the services they need. It's the same case for a naval base. A lot of money has to be spent on defence mostly because we've ignored it for so long. If we had facilities for maintaining and fixing boats and planes we wouldn't have to invest as much.
EDIT:
Looks like they're putting money into this https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/...t-aerodrome-to-house-growing-air-corps-fleet/
Last edited:
That must make the annual NS fleet exercise rather difficult - presumably he's shuttled from PV to PV in a rib when they're firing the big guns!
Just a titbit of useless information,
I was surprised on a recent visit to "Camden Fort Meagher" that the DF dress uniform hasn't been update since 1961
Not sure if it requires an updating or if we'd even notice it if it was, but it seems a long time without any alterations
Did the Garda dress uniforms get an update when the new operational uniforms were rolled out??
Most sailors who go to sea are qualified to load (and fire, believe it or not) the weapons, of which the main gun is only one?!
The issue was there was only one articifer qualified to certify the cannon for use i.e. so it doesn't explode when fired! It takes 5 years to qualify as a tiffy and the guy wanted to leave, but was hanging on in order to train his replacement.
This is a well known government policy, leveraging (i.e. abusing) the additional restrictions placed on military personnel, to underpay and undermine their T&Cs.
Concerns over shortage of artillery experts in armed forces
Ordnance Corps is operating at a level far below what is optimal as key personnel leave for jobs in the private sector, PDForra says
www.irishexaminer.com
"military industrial complex" and "threating our neutrality" are dog whistles to the far left. That's why she uses the terms. She is a subversive in deed and word, in my eyes.
We have a democracy that is supposed to function with an effective opposition. But an opposition which in opposing the actions of the executive, sees no difference between undermining their political opponents and undermining the institutions of the State, is not legitimate.
You have summed it up pretty well there. We have a legacy of underinvestment over the decades and the current state is a direct reflection of that. The tide is going out and slowly we are being caught out for that. Though we are starting to turn the tanker around, one thing that you have alluded to there, is that we don't actually have the capacity to expand at the pace that's needed. In terms of personnel, facilities even the internal structures are not in place. For example, something like 60% of the Defence Forces have less than 5 years experience. You can't buy that back.
losttheplot
Registered User
- Messages
- 707
Why buy an umbrella when my neighbour will probably feel sorry for me if it rains and let me shelter under theirs. Sure it's not likely to rain anyway and if I don't have an umbrella, the rain might avoid me. This is our neutrality.
There's also a correlation with the number of umbrellas and the amount of rain. So having an umbrella causes rain.
And the umbrella manufacturers want more rain.
There's also a correlation with the number of umbrellas and the amount of rain. So having an umbrella causes rain.
And the umbrella manufacturers want more rain.
It's not just the opposition - the outgoing twerp in the Big House also attempted to interfere in a recent Neutrality debate, and wasn't even rebuked for it by the Government. And I strongly doubt that his replacement will conduct herself any better.
The combats of the 80's were new, at the time. Irish DPM camouflage pattern was officially issued to military personnel in Ireland in 2000.
It was helicopter (singular). That helicopter was the air ambulance based in Custume Barracks, Athlone. The medical equipment needed to be hastily stripped out so that the ARW could use it.
Ideally the ARW should have had two helicopters minimum, for that operation. The second providing overwatch and to support the first, if required. We ask these guys to do difficult jobs but don't equip them accordingly.
If that operation had gone badly the military would have been blamed by the politicians.
Isn't @Cervelo referring to the dress uniform, for formal occasions, and not the operational/combat uniform?
He is part of the opposition.
It may have been, however, although both PC 135s and the AW 139s are used for air ambulance duties - as are the Casas, from time to time - and the helis also fill many other roles in the Air Corps.
Last edited:
And the outcome now is a dependence on external contractors, no doubt at a much higher cost.
These contractors likely know these weapons very well as they probably served in the very same Navy....doing the same job but for a lot more money.
Who could blame them.
It's usually cheaper to outsource work like that at small scale, it's standard across other branches of government that complex maintenance is farmed out to the private sector as it's cheaper than employing the skilled headcount you'd need to provide a comparable service.
Sister Sara
Registered User
- Messages
- 236
Thanks for Oireachtas post, very useful.
I do not read your interpretation. Connolly is predominantly asking for minutes of meetings and questioning the transparency and opaque nature of 'notes' that she has been provided after several requests.
Connolly was an opposition TD and her role is to hold government to account. It is important that we have an effective and determined opposition to ensure we have a transparent and accountable government - regardless of the issue.
And if that is the case that is to be welcomed and I absolutely agree that our defence apparatus and capabilities do need an overhaul and need to be upgraded and brought into the 21st century.
And therein, with respect, lies the opaqueness that Connolly, as an opposition TD is trying to get answers too.
Is Tonra a lobbyist for weapons manufacturing industry or not? What is this Irish Defence and Security Association?
https://defenceandsecurity.ie/
Its members include some of the biggest arms manufacturers in the world, Lockheed Martin and SAAB.
Tonra is a founding member.
That is not to say that their membership involves anything to do with progressing offensive weapons manufacturing and technology on this island for export and profit, but, why can our democratically elected TD's not get the information from Government that they request?
The lack of transparency lends itself to suspicion that Irelands military neutrality is continually undermined by sleight of hand boardroom decisions that the public are shielded from.