Legality of erecting convex traffic mirror on public road for concealed entrance

ajapale

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Update on mirror...
First mirror was smashed by a rock (not accidentally)
Fitted second mirror and the post+mirror was nicked.
Not fitting another one.

Im sorry to hear that rsg.

Its funny that vandalism and theft were not considerations when we discussed this back in 2008!

aj
 

ajapale

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That's crazy advice, if you don't mind me saying so.

Here is what lancashire co co has to say on the matter of traffic mirrors.
Pendle Borough Council - Traffic mirrors

Traffic mirrors

Traffic-Mirror.jpg
Sometimes a "blind exit" from a property is dangerous - for both the driver emerging and those travelling along the main road. Whilst a mirror located on the main road may well help those joining the road, unfortunately a mirror is legally classed as an obstruction on the highway and therefore cannot be put up without the express permission of the Department for Transport.


There are two further concerns: (a) the lights from a vehicle emerging from a private access may shine onto the mirror and reflect into the eyes of an approaching motorist, causing considerable confusion and possibly an accident, and (b) the emerging driver may rely on the mirror, even though it might have become obscured or no longer be visible.


The first course of action that may resolve the situation would be the removal or lowering of adjacent hedges to improve visibility. If this course of action fails to achieve reasonable visibility, then Lancashire County Council (as the highway authority) may be prepared to apply to the Department for Transport for authorisation of a mirror (this would be at no cost to the highway authority).
Authorisation is generally forthcoming subject to all of the following conditions being met:


  • The site must be rural or semi-rural where traffic on the main road is travelling at speed
  • Mutual visibility is virtually nil (ie the driver of the vehicle leaving the property and the driver of the vehicle on the main road cannot see each other's vehicle until they are almost next to each other)
  • An improvement scheme is not possible
  • Visibility cannot be improved by the removal or setting back of fences, hedges, wall or trees
  • The speed limit is above 30mph
  • A mirror would serve a single property
A mirror would not be permitted where it would encourage a significant number of people to rely solely on it for visibility purposes.
Lancashire County Council's stance on mirrors which are sited off the highway (on private ground), and subject to the landowner's agreement, is that they will not interfere unless they receive complaints.

The following technical note from Australia is also interesting.

.1585762-v3-Traffic_Management_-_AS1742_2_-_Convex_Traffic_Mirrors_-_Operational_Instruction_2_3.PDF (application/pdf Object)
 

T McGibney

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3,550
Here is what lancashire co co has to say on the matter of traffic mirrors.
Pendle Borough Council - Traffic mirrors



The following technical note from Australia is also interesting.

.1585762-v3-Traffic_Management_-_AS1742_2_-_Convex_Traffic_Mirrors_-_Operational_Instruction_2_3.PDF (application/pdf Object)

That may be so, but I still can't imagine a scenario where a driver could succeed in bringing a 'momenarily distracted' or 'dazzled' case against a third party in court would succeed. Drivers must at all times drive with due care and attention, ie not allow themselves to be distracted so as to affect their driving.
 

ajapale

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And closer to home from Fingal Co Co:
Fingal County Council Minutes

BSA/472/03 TRAEN HILL/CHURCH ROAD, LUSK JUNCTION
Question: Councillor G. McGuire
"To ask the Manager would he erect a visual reflector and road markings at the junction of the Old Church in Lusk?"
Reply:
The location referred to in the question is the Trean Hill/Church Road Junction.
The Councils Transportation Department is generally opposed to the use of traffic mirrors for safety reasons. At some locations they may provide a temporary solution but there are difficulties associated with their use for example:-


  • [*]Due to curvature of mirror, distance is distorted;
    [*]A driver approaching on a road seeing light in a mirror at night may be confused;
    [*]If the mirror is altered by accident or vandals, drivers may be misled and/or confused;
    [*]Mirrors usually become the targets of vandalism.
and from Wales
rep_2007-09-04b1_296b_en.pdf (application/pdf Object)

2 Limitations of Mirrors
Traffic mirrors may appear to be a simple remedy for a lack of visibility but can
themselves cause safety problems because:
• They can affect drivers’ visibility because they reflect headlamps or
sunshine dazzling the driver at night, or particular times of the day or
season;
• They can affect drivers ability to judge the distance of approaching vehicles
because convex mirrors are used to achieve a wide angle of visibility;
• Weather conditions may cause visibility problems which could be
dangerous to users.
• Maintenance of their alignment and cleanliness is critical.
although I do concede that the chances of "..sunshine dazzling the driver at night..." are somewhat remote!

and Oxfordshire CoCo insist that anyone erecting traffic mirrors on the public highway have Public Liability Insurance and indemnify the council agains claims.

Road mirrors - Oxfordshire County Council

Maintenance


  • we will not be responsible for any damage, repair or replacement of mirrors.
  • Public Liability Policy must be held by the owner indemnifying Oxfordshire County Council for at least £10,000,000 for any incident or any one claim involving the road mirror.
 

ajapale

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Back in '08 when I made the point about dazzling it was in response to a suggestion that the OP just "put the mirrors up and dont worry about it".

I merely suggested that the OP talk to the planning and roads departments of the local authority.
 

michaelm

Registered User
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1,853
I merely suggested that the OP talk to the planning and roads departments of the local authority.
At best they'd say "work on". More likely they would deny or delay the request, then putting it up is problematic. Worriers and sticklers should talk to the roads department :).
 

mrso'brien

Registered User
Messages
35
You need planning permission to put a mirror up like that. I know it sounds nuts, but there is an issue with dazzling of lights etc. I know this for 100% fact. You would need to contact the Local Authority - both Planning and Roads Design/Roads and Transportation Sections. They may give you an exemption but from my own experience it is likely you will need planning permission!!
 
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