Legal apprenticeship: any tips on trying to find a trainee solicitor job

So whats everyones plan? I Applied to pretty much the top 35 firms and managed to get an interview with one, where Im now on the reserve list. Ill only find out when the results are out in June if Ive got it which means someone has to fail an exam, so Im taking it as I havent got this. Do people reckon theres any point at all applying to the small firms or is it just a waste of time? And are people gonna send in applications again to the medium sized firms again before september or is this also pointless?
 
Been noticing a trend lately with people i know who are also looking for an apprenticeship, the no pay apprenticeship. A few people i know have taken the hit on this.

I have even heard that some places want you to pay, they will then use the money to pay you and make a wee profit out of tax relief.

Hmmm, anyone else experienced this?

It looks like the only possibility i have is going to be one of these no pay apprenticeships as well...

Anyone have any opinions on this or advice on just what the law society would do to you if they found out, i have been trawling through the regulations and they are a bit vague on just what sort of trouble you can get in.

Its the last thing i want to do, but its the only offer on the table.
 
How on earth do they manage to do it for no pay? Do the firms make it appear like they're paying? There are minimum pay guidlines provided by the law society so I presume it goes completely in the face of their policy? It would be a bit rough as well trying to pay back loans for Blackhall while earning no cash!!
 
I commenced apprenticeship in 1989 and was paid £70 per week starting off for first six months with small incremental upward changes thereafter. There was little or no complaint from fellow apprentices, that was the way it worked. In the years before that apprentices either worked for free or had to pay for their training. I would suggest that apprentices, prospective apprentices and the Law Society would re-visit the pay rates for apprentices or indeed waive any requirement for payment. This may seem unpalatable but one should always look at one's long term goals.
 
squiddy said:
Been noticing a trend lately with people i know who are also looking for an apprenticeship, the no pay apprenticeship. A few people i know have taken the hit on this.

I have even heard that some places want you to pay, they will then use the money to pay you and make a wee profit out of tax relief.

Hmmm, anyone else experienced this?

It looks like the only possibility i have is going to be one of these no pay apprenticeships as well...

Anyone have any opinions on this or advice on just what the law society would do to you if they found out, i have been trawling through the regulations and they are a bit vague on just what sort of trouble you can get in.

Its the last thing i want to do, but its the only offer on the table.
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I think it's an either/or situation. Firm has to pay for either b'hall or while the person is there - they cannot do both.

As for what is in store for everyone now: all firms who pay for b'hall are GONE. Vamuss! I'm in a job and i'm just glad to have it but as for app'ships - i'll apply to every tiny firm up in Dublin - not from Dublin but every single firm (NOT A GENERALISATION) in Munster /Connacht areas have let a lot of their staff go and this argument that people make that oh sure they'll take on trainees instead and let NQ's go is nonsense - firms will just make the NQ's take the salary of a trainee (why hire someone and then train them up when someone who knows the ropes is there and in this climate would be more than willing to take pay cut). So I am not wasting my time (sounds blaze but I reached the point of being withered at least 12 months ago with that route) sending Cv's out to anywhere but Dublin.

I know people will say - ooh some small firms down in the country will take a trainee on - hmmm I honestly would have to see it, feel it and touch it to believe it!
 
as far as i know, the big 5 are still paying for blackhall...i havent been told anything...yet
 
irishgirl you are generalising I know personally of a number of firms in the munster area who have not let anyone go

I think we have to realise that regardless of the recession the numbers passing through the law society were unsustainable just compare the numbers who qualified in 2000 to the record 774 who qualified in 2008, the numbers just couldn't keep going, regardless of the recession (which just served to acclerate the process) the work isn't there to suppose the numbers going through the professional courses in Blackhall
 
Not an eiter or situation.

If you don't work for them before blackhall they don't have to pay you during the course, and they don't have to pay for the course anyway from what i understand.

Whats being offered anyway breaks the rules, no pay, no fees...nothing

If you hand over €16K or so they use this money to pay you so it goes on the books. i am led to believe they make a bit of a profit because they will be paying you from the company's money before tax.

Not sure how they manage to not pay at all on the books, but do the law society check up on this anyway? goes completely against the rules, that's why i don't want to do it. the last thing you want is to end up in trouble before you are even qualified

Fortunately i dont have to make the decision after all, they don't even have enough work for an unpaid employee... not a good omen
 
has anyone heard back from MHC regarding summer internship? they are supposed to get back to people in feb.
 
squiddy said:
....but do the law society check up on this anyway? goes completely against the rules, that's why i don't want to do it. the last thing you want is to end up in trouble before you are even qualified

Fortunately i dont have to make the decision after all, they don't even have enough work for an unpaid employee... not a good omen
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The Law Society send out a letter to the training solicitor telling them what the minimum rates of pay are and leave it at that. Even if a trainee brought it to the attention of the Law Society they are unlikely to get any support against the training solicitor. Therefore unscrupulous employers are free to take advantage of trainees if they so wish. It is quite unfortunate because for a while the playing field seemed to have levelled out i.e. you could succeed without any contacts and self finance your way through qualification.
 
dazza21ie said:
The Law Society send out a letter to the training solicitor telling them what the minimum rates of pay are and leave it at that. Even if a trainee brought it to the attention of the Law Society they are unlikely to get any support against the training solicitor. Therefore unscrupulous employers are free to take advantage of trainees if they so wish. It is quite unfortunate because for a while the playing field seemed to have levelled out i.e. you could succeed without any contacts and self finance your way through qualification.
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Absolutely true. All kinds of messing with apprentices pay has always gone on. There is absolutely nothing an apprentice can do about it. Unless you choose to never work again in the legal profession that is. Partners will justify it on the grounds that they had to put up with worse back in their day, we have it soft now and I'm sure they walked to school in their bare feet too... And someday if you work really hard you too will get your turn to take advantage of the next generation of apprentices. (Cynicism button off - obviously this doesn't apply to all firms but the bottom line is apprentices have absolutely no bargaining power, there are millions ready to take your place if you're not willing to take whatever crap you are handed)
 
"....all firms who pay for b'hall are GONE. Vamuss! "

Just not true.

Many firms have taken on apprentices on the basis of either a formal or informal understanding that there is no job for the apprentice upon qualification. There is no compelling reason for such firms to pay for b'hall, and I would not criticise them for not doing so.

Those firms who are recruiting and training their intended future solicitors will, I am sure, continue to offer the best terms that they can, consistent with economic conditions, including payment of fees. There are far fewer such firms around right now, but they haven't by any means disappeared.
 
MOB said:
Those firms who are recruiting and training their intended future solicitors will, I am sure, continue to offer the best terms that they can, consistent with economic conditions, including payment of fees.
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I understand what you're saying, but you're dressing it up. 'Consistent with economic conditions' just means supply and demand. Firms will offer the lowest pay they can get away with to secure the apprentice they want. The apprentice will accept whatever they are offered because the supply of apprentices willing to work for next to nothing is almost bottomless relative to demand. A firm will offer as little as they can get away with as to do otherwise would be to provide charity by cutting into their profits unnecessarily, or indeed by causing them a loss. Many firm who recruit apprentices are not recruiting 'intended future solicitors' at all. They are recruiting staff members who they fully intend to let go on qualification. Again, not all, but many. You may argue that it's not worth the risk for firms to operate on that basis, but I can tell you from experience that many firms have made just that calculation and concluded that it does make economic sense to use apprentices in that way. There is no point in trainees who are entering the profession not being aware of the reality of their precarious position in it.
 
MOB said:
"....all firms who pay for b'hall are GONE. Vamuss! "

Just not true.

Many firms have taken on apprentices on the basis of either a formal or informal understanding that there is no job for the apprentice upon qualification. There is no compelling reason for such firms to pay for b'hall, and I would not criticise them for not doing so.
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I don't understand when you say it's not true that all the firms who will pay for b'hall are gone as I firmly believe they are. It's not a criticism on the firms who don't pay for b'hall just a statement (of course I could understand WHY most firms don't pay) but as advice for everyone reading this, irrespective of firms ability or inability, want or whatever to pay for b'hall - I don't believe there is one firm left out there who is looking for an apprentice to start this year in b'hall and who will pay the fees. If this is untrue - I would love to know as I would certainly be applying there!
 
what about your earlier assertion that ALL firms in munster and connaught have left people go,
i know this is not true
 
Why engage in such futile speculations?

I'm surprised to hear opinions being stated as fact with absolutely no concrete evidence to support them.

It's immaterial one way or the other whether firms pay fees for Blackhall or not. The bottom line is that anyone seeking an apprenticeship will accept whatever offer is made to them because they have no doubt put their heart and soul into a degree followed by the FE1s. It is unlikely that many would opt to abandon their chosen career path purely for financial reasons.

Sweeping statements about what firms are and aren't doing surely serve no purpose whatsoever other than to dishearten others.
 
brenda24 said:
Why engage in such futile speculations?

I'm surprised to hear opinions being stated as fact with absolutely no concrete evidence to support them.

It's immaterial one way or the other whether firms pay fees for Blackhall or not. The bottom line is that anyone seeking an apprenticeship will accept whatever offer is made to them because they have no doubt put their heart and soul into a degree followed by the FE1s. It is unlikely that many would opt to abandon their chosen career path purely for financial reasons.

Sweeping statements about what firms are and aren't doing surely serve no purpose whatsoever other than to dishearten others.
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The fee issue for alot of people is very relevant. One has to think can they afford to pay the 14-15k required for the Law Society courses. That is not to mention the cost of living while in Dublin or Cork when attending the course (as you may not be paid by your employer). Normally if someone didn't have this money they would borrow in the expectation that their income upon qualification will dramatically improve and repaying the borrowings will not be a problem. However, if you ask the many newly qualfied solicitors in the country currently earn €204/wk whether they would advise borrowing for the Law Society fees it is highly unlikely they will recommend it.
 
Card said:
what about your earlier assertion that ALL firms in munster and connaught have left people go,
i know this is not true
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If I said "all" then I shouldn't have. I should have said majority as realistically one/two man band shows aren't able to let people go. Now i'm talking about people who have more than two people in their practice to begin with but at the end of the day, people like myself, who are looking for an apprenticeship don't care to be honest who is letting go of what - I would just like to be taken on, end of.

As for b'hall fees - again - all I want is to be taken on even if that means taking out a big loan to pay for b'hall. Although it's pretty undesirable - so is never qualifying!

As for disheartening people - that's a good thing if i'm being honest. I would rather people had made me more disheartened at the beginning of this whole apprenticeship hunt than not because it's one thing not getting an app'ship but quite another to feel somewhat personally responsible for not getting one. If people read my post and think - well if people are being let go all over the place, apprentices just aren't being taken on - then getting PFO after PFO is less personal. Which is something that I did take personally for a while. It's just me giving an honest opinon (not fact) just an opinion and the only thing I can back it up with is - the fact that I am starting into my third year of looking for an a'ship and trying my damn hardest to get everything I was told to get i.e. fe1's, tick, experience. tick, extra study/qualifications, tick, contacts, tick. This is what i'm basing my opinions on.
 
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