Knock-on effect of Nurses pay claim

Discussion in 'Economic issues' started by Purple, 30 Jan 2019.

  1. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    Given that there will be a host of pay claims in order to maintain relativity (the thing that two rounds of Benchmarking at a cost of a billion and a half every year in extra taxes was meant to get rid of) does anyone have a source for the total cost when the dust settles?
    The Government is saying that the Nurses 12.5% increase will cost €300,000,000 a year but all of the other healthcare workers will want the same. What's the total cost?
     
  2. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    I could also ask. What's the possible total loss if the nurses don't get treated properly? Remember, no one's getting a pay rise and no public servants have been given any pay rises either.
     
  3. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster

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    Did AGS not receive a pay rise over a year ago?
     
  4. Delboy

    Delboy Frequent Poster

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    I think you may have missed this

    Public Service Stability Agreement
    01-Jan-18 All public service salaries to increase by 1%
    01-Oct-18 All public service salaries to increase by a further 1%
    01-Jan-19 Everyone earning less than €30,000 will get a 1% increase
    01-Sep-19 All public service salaries to increase by 1.75%
    01-Jan-20 Everyone earning less than €32,000 will get a 0.5% increase
    01-Oct-20 All public sector salaries to increase by 2%

    Hardly small change
     
  5. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    Pay was cut and hasn't got back to what it was before the cut yet many years have passed. So, no pay increases, in fact, pay cuts. As for a stability agreement? Fine Gael made sure it was far from an agreement. What you might call a forced choice.
     
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  6. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

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    That whole “pay restoration” narrative is horse manure. Public servants, nurses included, were overpaid in 2008. Those days must never return. Fine Gael are doing the right thing. I have a lot of time for nurses but I don’t support them in this instance. €30k for a graduate is decent money.
     
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  7. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: 31 Jan 2019
    Basic rates of pay are irrelevant when it comes to the likes of nurses and especially guards who while perhaps earn 23k basic per year after leaving templemore, when you add in the litany of added extras, no guard is on less than 30k ( not including over time )
     
    Last edited: 31 Jan 2019
  8. galwaypat

    galwaypat Frequent Poster

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    I have seen a child with a poster saying my mom worked Christmas day like so what she got treble time for it. It's the high cost of accommodation that is sqeezing young people starting out that's a big chunk of there wages gone already like what good is 500 quid a week take home pay to a young nurse trying to live in Dublin.
     
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  9. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    What do you mean by £treated properly"?
    What do you mean by ""total loss"?

    I posted this in the Economic Issues section because it wasn't about the rights and wrongs of the Nurses 12.5% pay claim. I was asking specifically about the cost of this and, more importantly, all of the associated pay claims.
     
  10. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: 31 Jan 2019
    Average Garda pay is €66,000 a year.
    Average Nurses pay is €55,000 a year.

    Garda pay including the value of their pension is over €100,000 a year. Nurses total pay value is far lower because Gardai retire after 30 years. Source.
    Nurses pensions are still very valuable though and while Garda pensions add about 50% to the real value of their salary nurses pensions certainly add 30% which means that their average package is worth closer to €75,000 a year.

    Edit: I should have read my own link. Average Garda pay was €68,000 but after their recent increases is it now €72,000 so their average package is worth closer to €110,000 a year.
     
    Last edited: 31 Jan 2019
  11. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster

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    Sorry for crazy typo earlier, auto spell on phone selected week instead of year.

    Of course I didn't mean new garda entrants earn 23k per week
     
  12. Delboy

    Delboy Frequent Poster

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    No, it's clearly a pay rise. You may need to read it again
     
  13. NoRegretsCoyote

    NoRegretsCoyote Frequent Poster

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    According to Eurostat, in 2016 (latest year available) total general government expenditure on compensation of employees was €19.4 bn, of which €7bn was in the health sector.

    Educated guess would say by 2019 these numbers are more like €20.5bn and €7.7bn.

    You can crudely multiply these numbers by 12.5% to get the knock-on implications.
     
  14. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    I didn't notice it; I thought you said 23k a year.
    Ya shudda said nuttin
     
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  15. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

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    It's funny that when wages were reduced they were a "cut" but when they are increased they are "restored" ;):rolleyes:
     
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  16. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster

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    Not unless you believe wage rates are set in stone.

    Pre 2008 was a whole other country
     
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  17. Purple

    Purple Frequent Poster

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    I don't think it would be that high but it's certainly a good indicator of what the ceiling could be.
    So the max is just under a billion a year (the price of the most expensive children's hospital in the world every year and a half.)
     
  18. KCRMoney

    KCRMoney Registered User

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  19. Delboy

    Delboy Frequent Poster

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    Like everywhere else in the PS/CS, you'll find that outdated and restrictive work practices kept in place by vested interests are the main issues to having a 21st century health service. Throwing more wages at the problem will not solve it one bit.
     
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  20. Early Riser

    Early Riser Frequent Poster

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    I would suggest it is more widespread than that again. The opposition to Health Service reform is pervasive and pernicious (while all pay lip service to it).

    The health service unions are obstructive (each for their own). Local communities oppose any "loss" locally, no matter how ineffective, inefficient or inappropriate the service might be. This is not just because of local access to service (although always couched that way) but because they or a family member works in it - or local business fear loss of trade if employment is moved elsewhere. Polticians respond to their local electorate ( " I fully support reform but.........). Everybody wants Health Service reform - somewhere else by someone else (unless there is a promotion, etc) dangled in front of me.


    I wasn't able to access the graphic. But I sometimes wonder how accurate these global comparators are? Did you see this critique article in the Irisy Times ?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...and-mask-real-shortage-in-hospitals-1.3775004
     
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