Knock-on effect of Nurses pay claim

Purple

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Given that there will be a host of pay claims in order to maintain relativity (the thing that two rounds of Benchmarking at a cost of a billion and a half every year in extra taxes was meant to get rid of) does anyone have a source for the total cost when the dust settles?
The Government is saying that the Nurses 12.5% increase will cost €300,000,000 a year but all of the other healthcare workers will want the same. What's the total cost?
 

galway_blow_in

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I could also ask. What's the possible total loss if the nurses don't get treated properly? Remember, no one's getting a pay rise and no public servants have been given any pay rises either.
Did AGS not receive a pay rise over a year ago?
 

Delboy

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Remember, no one's getting a pay rise and no public servants have been given any pay rises either.
I think you may have missed this

Public Service Stability Agreement
01-Jan-18 All public service salaries to increase by 1%
01-Oct-18 All public service salaries to increase by a further 1%
01-Jan-19 Everyone earning less than €30,000 will get a 1% increase
01-Sep-19 All public service salaries to increase by 1.75%
01-Jan-20 Everyone earning less than €32,000 will get a 0.5% increase
01-Oct-20 All public sector salaries to increase by 2%

It is understood the deal will cost the exchequer €880 million over three years
Hardly small change
 

noproblem

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Pay was cut and hasn't got back to what it was before the cut yet many years have passed. So, no pay increases, in fact, pay cuts. As for a stability agreement? Fine Gael made sure it was far from an agreement. What you might call a forced choice.
 

Gordon Gekko

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Pay was cut and hasn't got back to what it was before the cut yet many years have passed. So, no pay increases, in fact, pay cuts. As for a stability agreement? Fine Gael made sure it was far from an agreement. What you might call a forced choice.
That whole “pay restoration” narrative is horse manure. Public servants, nurses included, were overpaid in 2008. Those days must never return. Fine Gael are doing the right thing. I have a lot of time for nurses but I don’t support them in this instance. €30k for a graduate is decent money.
 

galway_blow_in

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That whole “pay restoration” narrative is horse manure. Public servants, nurses included, were overpaid in 2008. Those days must never return. Fine Gael are doing the right thing. I have a lot of time for nurses but I don’t support them in this instance. €30k for a graduate is decent money.
Basic rates of pay are irrelevant when it comes to the likes of nurses and especially guards who while perhaps earn 23k basic per year after leaving templemore, when you add in the litany of added extras, no guard is on less than 30k ( not including over time )
 
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galwaypat

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I have seen a child with a poster saying my mom worked Christmas day like so what she got treble time for it. It's the high cost of accommodation that is sqeezing young people starting out that's a big chunk of there wages gone already like what good is 500 quid a week take home pay to a young nurse trying to live in Dublin.
 

Purple

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I could also ask. What's the possible total loss if the nurses don't get treated properly? Remember, no one's getting a pay rise and no public servants have been given any pay rises either.
What do you mean by £treated properly"?
What do you mean by ""total loss"?

I posted this in the Economic Issues section because it wasn't about the rights and wrongs of the Nurses 12.5% pay claim. I was asking specifically about the cost of this and, more importantly, all of the associated pay claims.
 

Purple

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Basic rates of pay are irrelevant when it comes to the likes of nurses and especially guards who while perhaps earn 23k basic a week after leaving templemore, when you add in the litany of added extras, no guard is on less than 30k ( not including over time )
Average Garda pay is €66,000 a year.
Average Nurses pay is €55,000 a year.

Garda pay including the value of their pension is over €100,000 a year. Nurses total pay value is far lower because Gardai retire after 30 years. Source.
Nurses pensions are still very valuable though and while Garda pensions add about 50% to the real value of their salary nurses pensions certainly add 30% which means that their average package is worth closer to €75,000 a year.

Edit: I should have read my own link. Average Garda pay was €68,000 but after their recent increases is it now €72,000 so their average package is worth closer to €110,000 a year.
 
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galway_blow_in

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Average Garda pay is €66,000 a year.
Average Nurses pay is €55,000 a year.

Garda pay including the value of their pension is over €100,000 a year. Nurses total pay value is far lower because Gardai retire after 30 years.
Sorry for crazy typo earlier, auto spell on phone selected week instead of year.

Of course I didn't mean new garda entrants earn 23k per week
 

Delboy

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Pay was cut and hasn't got back to what it was before the cut yet many years have passed. So, no pay increases, in fact, pay cuts. As for a stability agreement? Fine Gael made sure it was far from an agreement. What you might call a forced choice.
No, it's clearly a pay rise. You may need to read it again
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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According to Eurostat, in 2016 (latest year available) total general government expenditure on compensation of employees was €19.4 bn, of which €7bn was in the health sector.

Educated guess would say by 2019 these numbers are more like €20.5bn and €7.7bn.

You can crudely multiply these numbers by 12.5% to get the knock-on implications.
 

Purple

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According to Eurostat, in 2016 (latest year available) total general government expenditure on compensation of employees was €19.4 bn, of which €7bn was in the health sector.

Educated guess would say by 2019 these numbers are more like €20.5bn and €7.7bn.

You can crudely multiply these numbers by 12.5% to get the knock-on implications.
I don't think it would be that high but it's certainly a good indicator of what the ceiling could be.
So the max is just under a billion a year (the price of the most expensive children's hospital in the world every year and a half.)
 

KCRMoney

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Delboy

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Like everywhere else in the PS/CS, you'll find that outdated and restrictive work practices kept in place by vested interests are the main issues to having a 21st century health service. Throwing more wages at the problem will not solve it one bit.
 

Early Riser

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Issue isn't staffing levels. Its staff organiastion and utilisation by management.
I would suggest it is more widespread than that again. The opposition to Health Service reform is pervasive and pernicious (while all pay lip service to it).

The health service unions are obstructive (each for their own). Local communities oppose any "loss" locally, no matter how ineffective, inefficient or inappropriate the service might be. This is not just because of local access to service (although always couched that way) but because they or a family member works in it - or local business fear loss of trade if employment is moved elsewhere. Polticians respond to their local electorate ( " I fully support reform but.........). Everybody wants Health Service reform - somewhere else by someone else (unless there is a promotion, etc) dangled in front of me.


We have one of the highest ratios of nurses per capita in the world.
I wasn't able to access the graphic. But I sometimes wonder how accurate these global comparators are? Did you see this critique article in the Irisy Times ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/statistics-skew-nurse-numbers-and-mask-real-shortage-in-hospitals-1.3775004
 
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