KBC KBC basing cohorts on Application date rather than Draw-down dates

[gnf_ireland]

I wonder do they class a top-up as a new application or an extention of the original. Whatever suits their argument I suppose

Hmmm interesting question. Do people use a broker for a top-up or go direct to the bank?

Is separate paperwork issued? Does the paperwork include/override the original application amount, or is it a parallel set of documentation? Are full new T&C's issued etc? Does a solicitor need to be involved etc. I assume its on the same mortgage account number etc and is just seen as a debit into the account?

It would be a very interesting discussion with the FSO I would imagine as I doubt its clear cut and imagine every bank is slightly different in the way they do it

 

[gnf_ireland]

I read in the report from yesterday he is absolutely certain KBC did not pull the flyer in Feb 08.

Now that would make things very interesting for some - although what it would mean for the Nov 06 date is a different story....

 

[Jazzer1]

Now that would make things very interesting for some - although what it would mean for the Nov 06 date is a different story

Padraic kissane was selling mortgages for kbc in Feb08 and he never received any info about pulling the tracker.

 

[gnf_ireland]

Padraic kissane was selling mortgages for kbc in Feb08 and he never received any info about pulling the tracker.

Received or remembered? KBC were very explicit about the dates to the Oireachtas committee. I assumed (like most) they had proof of this. Telling that sort of a lie would open a whole can of worms. The CB appear to also have agreed with the approach - surely they asked for proof?

I am not believing one side over the other - but I would find it incredible that KBC would tell something they cannot back up to an Oireachtas committee! They are normally very careful in their communications. Surely they would be in a very poor position for any further reviews in the area if they were found out - and someone would surely have found out

Does anyone know - is there any legal implications for lying to an Oireachtas committee?

 

[Jazzer1]

Received or remembered

The report from P.kissane said
The communication sent to all brokers now being described as a Flyer was never removed, discontinued by an subsequent communication that I know of and if it did I should have been sent an email.

 

[Sanparom]

Can somebody explain to me (in layman's terms) what he meant about the people who fixed for 3 years and the stress testing? Does this only apply to people in the flyer period or those beforehand also (potentially clutching at straws - again!)?

 

[Darn40]

Can somebody explain to me (in layman's terms) what he meant about the people who fixed for 3 years and the stress testing? Does this only apply to people in the flyer period or those beforehand also (potentially clutching at straws - again!)?

I think what he ment was as Kbc did not stress test those who fixed for 3 years or more, it gave Kbc an advantage to loan out more and maybe they were pushing this line of lending, as it favoured them, he said it was unfair for us to suffer because of their actions.

It applies to fixed before flyer.

He also made reference to the flyer, and the way it said all fixed rates will now roll to tracker. he believes it was for all fixed rate customers not just new.

 

[gnf_ireland]

he believes it was for all fixed rate customers not just new.

Surely it would be all customers who fixed via a broker and not all customers. If the flyer was only sent to brokers, then surely only brokers would be aware of it ?

The communication sent to all brokers now being described as a Flyer was never removed, discontinued by an subsequent communication that I know of and if it did I should have been sent an email.

So clearly there is a direct conflict between what PK says and KBC says. If this goes to court, or to some level of arbitration, the infamous communication which removed the flyer will need to be presented by KBC. If they dont, then in theory it would be valid right up to any application until the trackers were officially withdrawn by KBC. KBC were very specific with their dates in the Oireachtas committee - they would have known they would be challenged by someone on them at some stage. I honestly don't know what to believe in this case. I really wish the communication would just be made public
The crazy thing is brokers are all protected at this stage as its outside the statute of limitations....

I think what he ment was as Kbc did not stress test those who fixed for 3 years or more

I believe this practice still remains for fixing for 5 years or more with most banks !

 

[Jazzer1]

The crazy thing is brokers are all protected at this stage as its outside the statute of limitations....

As I said before, when I approached my Broker over the flyer being pulled he was nearly 100% that he didn't receive any correspondent over the pulling the flyer. He believed it was later on in 08 that he had to stop offering trackers. So thats two financial professionals that have said they are certain that they never received anything in Feb08. If kbc were so certain on their dates then why are they not making the correspondent they send out public?.....................I'll hazard a guess......They might have a correspondent for pulling trackers in 08 but they don't have one for the 11th of Feb and they made some deal with the C.B over this.

 

[gnf_ireland]

If kbc were so certain on their dates then why are they not making the correspondent they send out public?.....................I'll hazard a guess......They might have a correspondent for pulling trackers in 08 but they don't have one for the 11th of Feb and they made some deal with the C.B over this.

Prefer leaving the speculation and guess work out of it - I am sure the likes of PK is well able to ask KBC to show the communication issued on 11th February, as are a number of people on the Finance Committee.
I don't buy the 'deal done with CB' on this. The CB has done some great work here and are hardly going to let a bank off picking a random date which will favour some customers over others - especially in a foreign owned bank. Surely sooner or later someone would have taken a court challenge, or request the communication from KBC before they would let their case close. Surely if pushed and someone raised a complaint to the FSO stating they wished to see the communication, they would have to produce it at some point.

I guess all this is speculation until KBC produce the material, and the more brokers that contradict their version, the more pressure they are likely to come under.

So thats two financial professionals that have said they are certain that they never received anything in Feb08

It is a decade ago to be fair. Did you ask the broker what he would do if he/she was wrong? Would he/she be willing to compensate you for the error he/she made? Not being funny, but its very easy for one side to blame the other on this. Anyone willing to stick their neck out and say - "I definitely got no communication from KBC, and if KBC prove I did, then I will compensate you myself"

Is there any way for a broker, or ANO, to request this detail from KBC directly?

 

[Jazzer1]

It is a decade ago to be fair. Did you ask the broker what he would do if he/she was wrong? Would he/she be willing to compensate you for the error he/she made? Not being funny, but its very easy for one side to blame the other on this. Anyone willing to stick their neck out and say - "I definitely got no communication from KBC, and if KBC prove I did, then I will compensate you myself"

I contacted kbc the week they were infront of the Oireachtas and requested the correspondent they sent out to brokers to stop" the flyer". Surely anyone on the fringes like myself are entitled to see this correspondent. I have contacted kbc in recent weeks and still no reply to the flyer correspondent to Brokers. I can't understand why they can't make this public.

 

[gnf_ireland]

I contacted kbc the week they were infront of the Oireachtas and requested the correspondent they sent out to brokers to stop" the flyer". Surely anyone on the fringes like myself are entitled to see this correspondent. I have contacted kbc in recent weeks and still no reply to the flyer correspondent to Brokers. I can't understand why they can't make this public.

I don't either. It would close off a lot of discussion on it. I would hope the Oireachtas committee will ask for it to be made public the next time they are in front of them.
I know you can request your own files via a SAR (Subject Access Request), but for something generic would it be under the Freedom of Information act or whatever? I am not sure how you can force them to provide such a communication?

Anyone know?

 

[Jazzer1]

KBC were suppose to respond to my complaint no later than today and I haven't heard from them. I'm just curious can I send an email to push for clarification on my complaint and say they've had enough time and forward it to the Ombudsman man....
Or should I give them a few more days. On there last email it says they'll respond no later the 20th of March.

 

[Aisling1]

KBC were suppose to respond to my complaint no later than today and I haven't heard from them. I'm just curious can I send an email to push for clarification on my complaint and say they've had enough time and forward it to the Ombudsman man....
Or should I give them a few more days. On there last email it says they'll respond no later the 20th of March.

Definitely contact them and ask where is their response , get the name of who is dealing with your complaint and address all correspondence to them .
That’s what I’ve done as it’s given me a named individual to ask for instead of being passed from billy to jack

 

[Jazzer1]

Definitely contact them and ask where is their response , get the name of who is dealing with your complaint and address all correspondence to them .
That’s what I’ve done as it’s given me a named individual to ask for instead of being passed from billy to

I have got a name to contact in kbc. So I will contact them straight away again. I wonder do they do this on purpose.

 

[Qwerty123]

While I understand they are exceptionally busy their response time is awful. I've been waiting for a response to my email since Feb 17th despite being told it would be 3-5 working days. A month and 3 phone calls later and my queries remain unanswered. Not good enough

 

[gnf_ireland]

On there last email it says they'll respond no later the 20th of March

I have always found KBC prone to repeatedly missing these dates. They appear to view them as targets rather than deadlines.

I wonder do they do this on purpose.

A month and 3 phone calls later and my queries remain unanswered. Not good enough

No, I just think that every correspondence is reviewed to ensure does not implicate them in anything. They have "not answering the question" down to an art form.

 

[Qwerty123]

No, I just think that every correspondence is reviewed to ensure does not implicate them in anything. They have "not answering the question" down to an art form.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I've sent emails previously and had an answer within 3 days . It all depends on what you ask. In my case this time I've emailed them with uncomfortable questions relating to my account so they are simply not answering. In my experience - They don't like your questions they don't answer.

 

[gnf_ireland]

In my experience - They don't like your questions they don't answer.

Raise a formal complaint in so they have to answer them. The key is to understand what they will give you easily and everything else needs to be a formal complaint, ending with the FSO if required

 

[Qwerty123]

Unfortunately that's the case. Was hoping to at least get a response good or bad before taking it further.