Job not advertised internally

[LFC Murphy]

Just would like to know if any knows about the legality of a job not being advertised internally.

Basically just found out that a position that I would be in line for has been filled and I seen no advert (on notice board). I was keeping a look out for it.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

 

[ajapale]

As far as I know there is no obligation for an employer to advertise jobs internally (or externally). On occasion there may be a union-management agreeement in which certain jobs may be advertised internally.

 

[GA001]

Just wondered about this - the company has advertised the position EXTERNALLY but did not advise (and usually does) that they were advertising it externally, before they advertised it internally ????

 

[ajapale]

Just wondered about this - the company has advertised the position EXTERNALLY but did not advise (and usually does) that they were advertising it externally, before they advertised it internally ????

Hi GA001,

Your post does not make much sense to me.

You do realise that the thread is a year and a half old?

aj

 

[GA001]

Hi ajapale,

Regarless of the time scale (I'd rather not have started a new thread)

I was querying the reliability of your statement ie. in my own company, they advertised a job internally, but I found the same job on an external website, but it was advertised over 1 week ago - I just was querying any possibly legality of it.

 

[flattea2]

It's not illegal. Thankfully we have not got that PC yet. Why should they have to advertise internally anyway?

 

[GA001]

It's not illegal. Thankfully we have not got that PC yet. Why should they have to advertise internally anyway?

The unusual scenario this time is that on each vacancy it is stated "this may be advertised externally" this was not the case..

also with this type of job - they would not want to be employing outsiders... need a working knowledge of the company system.. I just found it very odd they would advertise it externally first...

 

[Sue Ellen]

Do you have a trade union and if so what is the agreement with them with regard to vacant positions? Have you queried the matter with them?

 

[Purple]

The unusual scenario this time is that on each vacancy it is stated "this may be advertised externally" this was not the case..

also with this type of job - they would not want to be employing outsiders... need a working knowledge of the company system.. I just found it very odd they would advertise it externally first...

Maybe they thought that new blood was needed?
What's the big deal?

 

[Complainer]

Maybe they thought that new blood was needed?
What's the big deal?

The big deal is that it shows considerable disrespect for their existing staff. It is unlikely that any employers knows exactly what all employees are capable of, e.g. what night courses they have done, what part-time work they do at weekends, what family interests they have. If they have made a decision that 'new blood was needed', they did so from a position of ignorance.

 

[ajapale]

Just wondered about this - the company has advertised the position EXTERNALLY but did not advise (and usually does) that they were advertising it externally, before they advertised it internally ????

Ga,

Forgive me but your post is still confusing me.

Is the quote a new question or does it relate to the original year and a half old post?

aj

 

[dodo]

If the job thought they had someone in the company to fill that post they would have done it internally.That is the way our company does it when a job comes up.They only do internal if they believe the person can do the job.Why post job internally and go throught interview process if you know that person is not right for the position.It would be rude to make a fool of someone giving them false hope.Take it that they felt you where not the best person for the job.

Just would like to know if any knows about the legality of a job not being advertised internally.

Basically just found out that a position that I would be in line for has been filled and I seen no advert (on notice board). I was keeping a look out for it.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

 

[flattea2]

The big deal is that it shows considerable disrespect for their existing staff. It is unlikely that any employers knows exactly what all employees are capable of, e.g. what night courses they have done, what part-time work they do at weekends, what family interests they have. If they have made a decision that 'new blood was needed', they did so from a position of ignorance.

How do we know it was from a position of ignorance or that indeed they had taken all of these things into account?

 

[Complainer]

They only do internal if they believe the person can do the job.Why post job internally and go throught interview process if you know that person is not right for the position.

How do we know it was from a position of ignorance or that indeed they had taken all of these things into account?

I'll try it a second time, as I guess you missed it the first time. It is unlikely that any employer knows exactly what all employees are capable of. No-one is suggesting that employers go through a charade of interviews. Internal candidates should go through the exact same short-listing process as external candidates. If they don't meet the basic requirements of the job, they don't get an interview. But you won't know who meets the basic requirements of the job unless you invite applications.

 

[dodo]

I cant agree with you, If I have a person working under my watch for ie 5 years surely I know what they are capable of and what they are not.Jobs go up in our place a few times a year for different reasons.I do be asked do I feel that a person under my management would be suitable and capable of doing a job that will shortly be coming available sometimes I say yes and sometimes I say no.It is that simple,If I did not know of a employee's capability's then I would not be doing my own job correctly. In a lot of companies certain people are told to apply for positions that are available.Do you really want to go throught with interviews and all the stress to be told that you are not suitable. Remember if the company wants you for the job they will let you know.

I'll try it a second time, as I guess you missed it the first time. It is unlikely that any employer knows exactly what all employees are capable of. No-one is suggesting that employers go through a charade of interviews. Internal candidates should go through the exact same short-listing process as external candidates. If they don't meet the basic requirements of the job, they don't get an interview. But you won't know who meets the basic requirements of the job unless you invite applications.

 

[Complainer]

If I have a person working under my watch for ie 5 years surely I know what they are capable of and what they are not.

It's not just about their suitability for a similar job - you need to know about their suitability for completely different jobs within your organisation. So do you know about your team's suitability for EVERY possible position in the company?

Do you know if perhaps one of them has done an evening course in bookeeping? or a course in HR? Do you know if one of them volunteers as a paramedic or civil defence activist? Do you know if one of them cares for an elderly relative or a disabled child? Do you know if one of one them volunteers to cover communications and PR for a political group or campaign group?

Unless EVERY manager in the organisation can answer a positive YES to EVERY one of these questions (and a pile of other questions) for EVERY employee in the organisation, the job should be advertised internally.

 

[Purple]

It's not just about their suitability for a similar job - you need to know about their suitability for completely different jobs within your organisation. So do you know about your team's suitability for EVERY possible position in the company?

Do you know if perhaps one of them has done an evening course in bookeeping? or a course in HR? Do you know if one of them volunteers as a paramedic or civil defence activist? Do you know if one of them cares for an elderly relative or a disabled child? Do you know if one of one them volunteers to cover communications and PR for a political group or campaign group?

Unless EVERY manager in the organisation can answer a positive YES to EVERY one of these questions (and a pile of other questions) for EVERY employee in the organisation, the job should be advertised internally.

My apologies if I am incorrect but it sounds like you are making the presumption that the OP is working in a large company/ organisation. If I need a new design engineer I will not advertise the job internally because I know that there are no suitable internal candidates. In an organisation which employs up to 100 people the management should know all about all of their employees. If they don’t then they aren’t much good at their job since, despite the cliché, the fact is that a business’s biggest asset is their employees. If you don’t know them then you cannot utilise them properly.

 

[extopia]

If an employee has any special qualifications or interests that would be of interest to their employer, by all means the employee should let the employer know of their newly gained qualifications.

 

[Complainer]

My apologies if I am incorrect but it sounds like you are making the presumption that the OP is working in a large company/ organisation. If I need a new design engineer I will not advertise the job internally because I know that there are no suitable internal candidates. In an organisation which employs up to 100 people the management should know all about all of their employees. If they don’t then they aren’t much good at their job since, despite the cliché, the fact is that a business’s biggest asset is their employees. If you don’t know them then you cannot utilise them properly.

I'm not necessarily referring to large companies. I can see that for specialist roles such as the example you outline above, it may well be very unlikely that there are suitable internal candidates that you don't know about. However, there may well be suitable candidates who are brothers/cousins/flatmates of internal staff - Why would you want to rule out 'word of mouth' as a recruitment channel?

If an employee has any special qualifications or interests that would be of interest to their employer, by all means the employee should let the employer know of their newly gained qualifications.

This is patronising nonsense, suggesting that every employee should be updating the HR person every quarter on their personal developments in order to be considered for internal jobs. It smacks of a patriarchal view of employment that I thought went out in the 60's. No HR person would want to be weighed down in this paperwork. Just sticking the notice on the notice board is a far more common sense approach.

 

[extopia]

This is patronising nonsense, suggesting that every employee should be updating the HR person every quarter on their personal developments in order to be considered for internal jobs.

Well, I'm sorry if you were offended. I didn't suggest you file paperwork with the HR department at all. I think a more informal approach would be better, e.g. keeping your immediate boss or supervisor abreast of your educational attainments or other relevant experiences. If it makes a difference to the job at hand, such knowledge may well pass up the communication channels without any further intervention on your behalf.

No employee has an automatic right to promotion, IMO. There's nothing wrong with seeking to fill a role from outside the company. And anyway, if the job is advertised publicly, internal people still have an opportunity to apply.

As to hiring brothers, cousins, flatmates of existing staff, well and good, as long as there's no nepotism involved.