Is there something wrong with sentencing guidelines or with judges or both?

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mathepac

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Kieran Fogarty, from Hyde Road, Limerick "was on bail at the time of the crash for other offences and was forbidden to drive" when he killed journalism student Joe Drennan by driving through a red light at 122 kph and hitting the student who was at a bus stop.

Fogarty "received a six-and-a-half year sentence for dangerous driving causing death in October 2023 and an eight-year sentence for a drive-by shooting in June of the same year.

The sentences will run concurrently and are backdated to October 2023."

Mr. Drennan's family spokesperson said on RTE news that Fogarty got an eight-year sentence for shooting a wall and six-and-a-half years for killing her brother.

I think a life sentence with no remission, to run consecutive to the eight-year firearms and other offences should have been the minimum.

Why do judges not have to explain themselves face-to-face to families in cases like these? The family spokesperson said on the news that they plan on appealing the sentence. I hope they can and that they have deep pockets, God help them.

I heard nothing about the DPP's plans.

The bits in italics and quotes are from the RTE News website report.
 
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Judges seen to think, ironically, that they are above the law. The people through their Parliament make laws and impose sentencing guideline which Judges must follow except in the most extenuating of circumstances. The judges then ignore the will of the people.
 
Mr Drennan was returning home from his part-time job when Fogarty killed him. A promising young rising star had his life snuffed out by a man who in stark contrast refused to even heed his mother's pleas for him to "do the decent thing and hand himself in", according to the RTE report.

Deeply disturbing, a fact not reflected in the judge's sentencing.
 
mathepac said:
Judges are above the law. See here https://aji.ie/the-judiciary/removal-from-judicial-office/#:~:text=Article 35.4 of the Constitution,Éireann calling for his removal.
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Not quite the same thing. I think that separation of powers is a good thing. It would be bad if the government of the day could remove judges. My point is that they don't seem to think that they should operate within the law as it pertains to their job, certainly not within the spirit or intent of the law.
 
Ceist Beag said:
I have yet to hear anyone give a good rationale for concurrent sentencing.
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I agree. If you are involved in 5 armed bobberies and get caught each time you could spend decades in prison. If you get caught after you've been involved in all of them you'll probably spend the same amount of time in prison that you would if you'd just been involved in one of them.
 
"The mother of journalism student Joe Drennan, who was killed in a hit-and-run in Limerick two years ago, has said her family are relieved that the DPP has lodged an appeal against the six-and-a-half-year concurrent sentence imposed on her son's killer, on the grounds it was too lenient.", RTE News reported this evening.

DPP Lodges appeal against leniency of concurrent sentence

Thank goodness for that.
 
Here's another one in the same vein.

A serial offender with 41 previous convictions, already serving a 27-month sentence for deception, gets a 3-year sentence with 21 months suspended.

Why bother with all the pomp, ceremony, and expense of a criminal justice system, let them all just run riot, it'd probably save money..

www.rte.ie

Man who targeted car dealerships posing as a buyer jailed

A 23-year-old man has been jailed after he targeted car dealerships in Cork and Wicklow to acquire BMWs valued at approximately €164,000.
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie
 
And yet another having swindled more than €60,000 from the Department of Social Protection, and, according to the sentencing judge she was "was no stranger to deception", noting a number of previous convictions. She still gets a 25% discount on her sentence.

www.rte.ie

Serial fraudster jailed for 3 years for deception, theft

A 36-year-old serial fraudster has been sentenced to four years in jail with the final 12 months suspended at the Circuit Criminal Court in Tralee, Co Kerry, after she pleaded guilty to 18 counts of deception and theft.
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie
 
Can someone help me here please? What sentencing guidelines did/will the judge follow?

"A 30-year-old man has been sentenced to 12 years in prison, with the final two years suspended, for an attack in Co Monaghan, that left his aunt with permanent and life-altering brain injuries."

"Ms Cunningham had been struck in the head with a bottle, stabbed in the face, and kicked while on the ground.

No attempt was made to call emergency services or for medical help.

Instead, the court heard Tumelty unlawfully took Ms Cunningham's car.

Ms Cunningham was found lying injured in the kitchen of her home the following day by concerned members of her family who had called to check on her."

The judge suspended the final 2 years because the Tumelty handed himself into a Garda station. But ...

"Judge Alymer said that an aggregating* factor of the case was that Tumelty was on bail at the time for assault causing harm and the false imprisonment of a woman in Carlingford, which he is currently serving a six year and nine month sentence for."

Will the ten years be served consecutive to the 6 year and 9 month sentence or does the new sentence start from the date of sentencing, in other words concurrent sentencing in all but name?

Would judges not consider the public, women in particular, need protecting from criminals with violent histories such as this and sentence them to life, life meaning the rest of his natural life?

*RTE's typists again I suspect, that word should be "aggravating".

RTE report with suspected typo and bad English
 
There are many baffling sentences in Irish courts. Some judges give custodial sentences for possession of marijuana and at the other end of the scale over 60,000 people have signed a petition to have Judge Martin Nolan resign due to the lenient sentences he gives to sex offenders (suspended sentences for people found with pornographic images and videos of children as young as 2 etc).
 
Here's yet another bewildering reduction in 'headline' and concurrent sentence

"In respect of the rape, the judge imposed a headline sentence of nine and a half years, reducing it to eight years.

Kila received a concurrent four-year sentence for the sexual assault, and was placed on a register for sex offenders."

The victim, who is not named in the report, stated "that prior to the rape and assault she had been "excited" to be nursing at UHL, but that after the rape she "couldn't" return there.

She said she felt "physically sick" walking back into the hospital, where Kila continued working for a time.

"I feared for the patients of UHL, I knew that I had gotten out of the hospital but what about those who were left behind?"

The victim concluded: "I am a strong woman, I will heal from this, and I will be a stronger, more resilient version of myself. I will never let that man take that away from me."

The HSE also failed to suspend the doctor after the complaint was made "Kila, aged 31, of Cois Luachra, Dooradoyle, had denied rape and sexual assault of the woman, at an apartment in Limerick city, on 2 March 2024.

Kila raped the woman and when she told him to stop, he carried on sexually assaulting her.

At the time, Kila was a senior registrar at University Hospital Limerick (UHL) and the victim was a nurse at the hospital.

In a statement after Kila’s conviction, the HSE said it should have immediately suspended Kila from duty but it did not.

"Dr Kila should have been suspended from clinical practice when we became aware of the assault. Regrettably, this did not occur. This does not reflect current practice and policy," said HSE Mid West.

"Protective measures were put in place for the victim based on her individual requirements following her identification of the assault. The welfare of our staff remains our priority," it added."

No explanation from the HSE for its utter failure, and no explanation from the judge for his thinking, or lack thereof.
 
mathepac said:
"In respect of the rape, the judge imposed a headline sentence of nine and a half years, reducing it to eight years.
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So he'll serve around 4 years for rape. That's sickening and a says nothing good about how we as a society view the seriousness of rape.
 
Purple said:
how we as a society view the seriousness of rape.
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Indeed. Rape within a marriage only became a crime in 1990. When George Hook made awful comments blaming rape victims it feels like it was a hundred years ago but it was only 2017 and a lot of people agreed with him. So it's no wonder the rates of reporting and prosecution are low, never mind sentencing.
 
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