KBC Is the KBC 'prevailing' rate argument dead in the water?

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by mccoypat94, 14 Feb 2018.

  1. Darn40

    Darn40 Frequent Poster

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    If the prevailing variable rate 10 years ago was the tracker surely that’s what we were ment to go onto.
    If not it would have to say at the end of the fixed rate period the lenders then prevailing variable rate will apply.
    Kbc simply say that the lenders prevailing variable rate is svr no matter if 10 years ago or now, and nothing to back this up yet the central bank have let them away with it. I think they should be made prove it either way.
     
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  2. gnf_ireland

    gnf_ireland Frequent Poster

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    This is basically down to nuisances of the english language as I said in the previous post. Things like comma's etc take on huge meanings here, as does precedence. I think you are hoping rather than anything else !

    Even arguing the english language statement, which at best would be claiming it is open to misinterpretation, it is very unlikely that any court would agree that its standard practice that the variable rate at the end of the fixed period would be the one at the start. It goes against the way variable rates work. The text is very clear - its a variable rate and does not state tracker.

    Also, if the wording of the contract as a whole is anything like the ones I got in 2010/11 and 2015, they will be shocking. In both my scenarios, I sent back an email asking the bank to tidy up the spelling and grammar errors in the contracts they issued. They stated they could not as they were standard issue !

    But putting it into perspective, I cannot see KBC conceding on this unless the CB push them into it (unlikely) or a court case decides it.
     
  3. demoivre

    demoivre Frequent Poster

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    If trackers were available at all Section 2.1 and 2.2 below would suggest that a tracker should have been offered anyway !

    However when you see the likes of KBC applying legal fees to mortgage accounts after repossession proceedings have begun but before cases are concluded, with no right whatsoever to do so without direction from a judge, I don't have much faith in the CPC been adhered to, or being enforced.


    GENERAL PRINCIPLES of Consumer Protection Code

    A regulated entity must ensure that in all its dealings with customers and within the context of its authorisation it:

    2.1 acts honestly, fairly and professionally in the best interests of its customers and the integrity of the market;
    2.2 acts with due skill, care and diligence in the best interests of its customers;

    2.3 does not recklessly, negligently or deliberately mislead a customer as to the real or perceived advantages or disadvantages of any product or service;
    2.4 has and employs effectively the resources, policies and procedures, systems and control checks, including compliance checks, and staff training that are necessary for compliance with this Code;
    2.5 seeks from its customers information relevant to the product or service requested;
    2.6 makes full disclosure of all relevant material information, including all charges, in a way that seeks to inform the customer;
    2.7 seeks to avoid conflicts of interest;
    2.8 corrects errors and handles complaints speedily, efficiently and fairly
     
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  4. bazual

    bazual Registered User

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    Hi folks, I received a letter today advising I was one of the ones impacted and would be placed on a tracker rate from end of February which seems to have already taken effect.
    I honestly did not expect this as it was the same argument as you had mentioned above and the wording which stated "at the end of the fixed rate period, the prevailing variable rate will apply"
    To summarize, started in Jan 2008 for 5 years fixed which would have reverted to the above after the 5 years.

    I went through all documentation and did come across a brochure called "mortgage handbook". There is one page that gives details of the fixed rate which I think would possibly support cases above.

    The wording states under the fixed rate section "When the fixed rate you chose comes to an end, you can agree another fixed rate, or you can switch to a variable or tracker rate at the time. The choice is yours." This is possibly the reason why I am in scope for this as I was not offered the rate based on the mortgage handbook I received for my mortgage.

    I can upload some screenshots of the manual if that is of some help.

    Thanks,
    B~
     
  5. Lightening

    Lightening Frequent Poster

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    324
    Delighted for you Bazual. The handbook has been mentioned before on AAM and it does indeed back up what we now know. It would be very helpful for others if you could upload screenshots as suggested.
     
  6. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    544
    You are back on tracker becasue the infamous flyer sent to brokers stated that fixed rates would roll onto a specific tracker rate (1.25% for most).

    As trackers were no longer available in 2013 when your fixed rate ended, the condition in the booklet would not have applied. In addition, if the flyer did not exists and you pushed them on above, and they relented, they could simply have done what aib did and said the tracker margin was 3.67%.

    You will now receive a nice refund of the overpaid interest they took from 2013 to last month :)
     
  7. Sanparom

    Sanparom Frequent Poster

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    94
    I opened a complaints procedure with KBC based on this issue. I was assured that the matter was being dealt with and that I'd receive a response no later than the 28th February. It is now the 6th March and I've received nothing.

    bazual - delighted for you. I'd love to be optimistic that you are receiving redress due to the prevailing rate issue, but I fear that no one is taking this issue seriously at present.
     
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  8. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    544
    In fairness, there has been no post since last Tuesday til yesterday. So even if they sent the letter on the 28th, it could be tomorrow or Thursday before you receive it.
     
  9. Darn40

    Darn40 Frequent Poster

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    66
    Interesting to see you are in the timeframe of the infamous flyer yet you have that wording in you contract.
    but I think peemac is correct in saying that you are getting a tracker mortgage as you are within the flyer timeframe.

    This issue is confusing to say the least Kbc intended to roll fixed contracts (within the flyer) ???
    And have the same wording in the flyer contract as we have in ours.

    The lenders prevailing variable rate is also used in some tracker mortgage contracts as some have said on this site before.



    If you could post the pictures of the handbook I’d like to see them thanks.
     
  10. Darn40

    Darn40 Frequent Poster

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    66
     
  11. bazual

    bazual Registered User

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    3
    Not sure if its access based on my post count but I have 2 files around 2 meg each and it wont let me upload either of them for the screenshots. I will figure it out and post them later.
     
  12. Sanparom

    Sanparom Frequent Poster

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    Thanks peemac, but all my correspondence with them to date has been via email, so I expected an email response. Maybe you're right though.
     
  13. Johnc6

    Johnc6 Registered User

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    29
    Last edited: 6 Mar 2018
    My booklet from 2005 says "When the fixed rate you chose comes to an end, you can agree another fixed rate, or you can switch to the variable rate at the time. The choice is yours." My point/argument with them is at the end of the fixed rate I was automatically put onto SVR, which was not defined in the booklet.
     
    Last edited: 6 Mar 2018
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  14. Wonder

    Wonder Registered User

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    @Johnc6 The svr was not been used by kbc at that time only fixed and tracker which was the variable. If u ask kbc to give u the rates from, 2005 they won't as it will prove this. This in my opinion is what needs to be focused on.
     
  15. Johnc6

    Johnc6 Registered User

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    @Wonder Just checking it again there: the booklet explaining the rates say IIB had Fixed, Variable, Tracker and Split (fixed and variable) Rates. They do say that Tracker is a variable that tracked the ECB. As for the Prevailing Variable part that is in most of the contracts it could also be argued that according to the Central Bank's own statistics the Prevailing (most common) variable rates 2006-2009 were trackers
     
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  16. Wonder

    Wonder Registered User

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    Yes that is true no reference to a SVR. If u ask kbc what was the tracker rate and what was their svr for 2005/2006 they won't give u them.....
     
  17. Johnc6

    Johnc6 Registered User

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    True, the Bank of You has gone very silent, trying to get a response for the last 2 weeks from their TrackerMortgageExamination@kbc.ie email. It must have been confined to the bin I think.
     
  18. Wonder

    Wonder Registered User

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    31
    They are hoping we will all just take there lies and walk away. Keep up the fight it's up to them to prove us wrong but they can't ......
     
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  19. bazual

    bazual Registered User

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    3
    Here is the link to the brochure from 2008.

    Front cover and page with the fixed rate details.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Johnc6

    Johnc6 Registered User

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    @bazual Thank you, this opens the question why all those on fixed at that time were not offered Trackers on expiry? This version of the handbook should have the same influence for all fixed rate customers as the flyer did for that cohort.