KBC Is the KBC 'prevailing' rate argument dead in the water?

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by mccoypat94, 14 Feb 2018.

  1. mccoypat94

    mccoypat94 Frequent Poster

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    Is the KBC 'prevailing' rate arguement dead in the water?
    There seemed to be some hope that the ambuigity in the terminology used at that time was an arguement for a tracker , and I seem to recall P Kissane highlighting this in some interviews.
    However it doesnt appear at this stage that anyone has had sucess arguing a case, am I correct?
     
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  2. Lightening

    Lightening Frequent Poster

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    I don't believe anyone on this thread can give you the correct answer to that question right now. You need to contact Padraic Kissane since he met with KBC recently he would know the answer. He sat in front of top management and he would know the position as it stands.
     
  3. mccoypat94

    mccoypat94 Frequent Poster

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    I got a letter yesterday and its fairly definative as to where the bank stands on it, doubt Padraic will have got a different answer regardless of what his own views may be:(
     
  4. unfortunate

    unfortunate Frequent Poster

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    Did they explain the term? I've asked for info on it including glossary of terms and brochures from the period to see an explanation for it. Waiting to hear back still. Interested to see what they can come back with.
     
  5. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: 14 Feb 2018
    I think it is, as the wording usually says

    "at the end of the fixed rate period, the prevailing variable rate will apply"

    Prevailing I take as meaning "current, at the time" - by having the words "at the end of the fixed rate period" it would mean the rate current at that time - eg the date that the fixed rate finishes.
     
    Last edited: 14 Feb 2018
  6. Sanparom

    Sanparom Frequent Poster

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    I don't think it's dead in the water if the prevailing variable rate didn't actually apply at all. It seems from that wording that a person would roll to prevailing variable (could have been tracker or SVR), but that often did not happen and people were still given letters trying to convince them to fix. We are the forgotten few. The whole focus with KBC is on the infamous flyer and there are other people (whether in this cohort or others!) who could also be entitled. They made other mistakes too - it wasn't all about the flyer, but they're doing a good job at making it look like it was!
     
  7. unfortunate

    unfortunate Frequent Poster

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    Or to put another spin on it at the end of the fixed rate period the prevailing, (current, as in now when read), variable rate will apply. Just saying.
     
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  8. unfortunate

    unfortunate Frequent Poster

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    KBC statements and other papers advertising in post today. They advertise fixed, SVR and other variable rates ( LTV ). There must have been difference back in the day between SVR and prevailing. Just waiting on their so slow reply to queries as usual.
     
  9. gnf_ireland

    gnf_ireland Frequent Poster

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    but the nature of variable rates is they are subject to change. That would make no sense in the context of variable rates ? Would it ?

    Not necessarily. It just gives them the options to have SVR and other variable rates and offer the customer the default one. A few years ago LTV rates did not exist. In a few years time it will be something else.

    They are normally very cautious with their communication on complaints/SAR's and take as much time as they can to reply. Personally I have also found them very good at answering questions you did not ask and ignoring the ones you did :)
     
  10. mccoypat94

    mccoypat94 Frequent Poster

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    They are normally very cautious with their communication on complaints/SAR's and take as much time as they can to reply. Personally I have also found them very good at answering questions you did not ask and ignoring the ones you did :)[/QUOTE]

    Id second that!!!
     
  11. unfortunate

    unfortunate Frequent Poster

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    True but they did slip with me. Won't elaborate. No my point being if SVR existed in 2005 or earlier/later, why wasn't it used in contract and if it wasn't then prevailing rate wasn't SVR. By the way gnf you must be square eyed checking and responding in such detail to all the threads!
     
  12. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    He's currenlty banjaxed :) - dodgy/broken leg or something, so bored. - Ever watched daytime telly??? Even boards would be more interesting - that's saying something!
     
  13. Jazzer1

    Jazzer1 Frequent Poster

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    Myself and gnf had this argument before on another thread. But I agree with you unfortunate. Prevailing rate was without doubt a "tracker rate" 10 years ago that is what the Brokers understood it to be too. But kbc have someway convinced the central bank that" it wasn't exactly a tracker " words of Dara Deering from kbc to the Oireachtas. If we were to revert to a standard rate why did they not state SRV on the contract. I also have IIB homeloans renewal rate on my contract too!. Whatever the hell thats meant to be!.
     
  14. gnf_ireland

    gnf_ireland Frequent Poster

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    Yeah, I think after my stint with the foot, I will need to go to an Ophthalmologist to straighten my eyes after the last few weeks !
    That said I do find some of these threads addictive, and that probably says a lot more about me !

    Luckily cast coming off soon, so you will all be left in peace again for a while, you will be glad to hear !
     
  15. gnf_ireland

    gnf_ireland Frequent Poster

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    I agree that "10 years ago the prevailing rate was a tracker rate", but today the prevailing rate would be classified as a LTV variable rate. 5 years ago (2013) the prevailing rate would be SVR, as there was little alternatives available.


    After that its down to interpretation of the english language, where the comma's in the sentences are and the detail of the grammar used. This is the tricky part and one that people will disagree on.

    "at the end of the fixed rate period, the prevailing variable rate will apply"
    I think most can agree that prevailing means current.
    How important is that comma in the sentence?
    How important is the sequencing of the text - is it different to "the prevailing variable rate will apply at the end of the fixed rate period"

    I will let an English teacher/professor clarify that, as I don't want to expose any potential limitations in my grammar :)

    Speaking of language, I wonder has anyone ever asked KBC for a mortgage contract in Irish?? Just curious now
     
  16. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    I certainly think there is no ambiguity if the wording is "at the end of the fixed rate period, the prevailing variable rate will apply" - it gives a specific time of reference and by the fact that they say "variable", it also shows that the actual rate is an unknown.

    It probably one of the weakest arguments and a difficult one to argue.

    I think the only angles are those who applied before the infamous nov 6th date and drew down afterwards as the flyer says "all fixed rates will now roll over to tracker" As the contract only commences on drawdown, then I'd certainly be fighting strongly if I drew down after Nov 6th and was not put on a tracker .

    I'm surprised the cb has not challenged this.
     
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  17. unfortunate

    unfortunate Frequent Poster

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    Hmm. Well I see all sides. But its they're go is what annoys me and they're lack of "bank of you" so fondly advertised.
     
  18. gnf_ireland

    gnf_ireland Frequent Poster

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    Agree partially with this and I have said this a number of times on the other thread. Whatever about drawdown date, those who signed their letter of Offer after 6th November should be included as they would have been in regular contact with the broker from the application date to offer date, when the flyer came out. The broker was bound to mention it to them at the time !
     
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  19. gnf_ireland

    gnf_ireland Frequent Poster

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    Remember they have form here as well. Until recently if you signed up for a LTV rate and they cut the rate for that LTV it did not apply to you as an existing customer. These rate cuts were for new customers only. This has temporarily changed with the Existing Customer Offer which can be withdrawn at any time.
    The "Bank of You" is not something I would personally describe them.... not by a country mile !
     
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  20. unfortunate

    unfortunate Frequent Poster

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    That's for sure......a few country miles in fact
     
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