Irish Bankruptcy in the UK

Hi Annette see below

Annette25 said:
For attention of Steve Thatcher please

1. If a couple file for Bankruptcy in the UK and for example the husband bases his COMI (Centre of Main Interest) there, can his spouse remain in Ireland where she has permanent part-time employment?

She can , but she will not be able to go bankrupt. Noth must establish an habitual residency in the UK to avail of bankruptcy

2. Husband was born in the UK, would this make any difference to filing for Bankruptcy? (Moved to Ireland in the 1970’s and returned to the UK in 1984 until returning to Ireland in 1997).

No. He would need to re-establish his comi

3. Previously had a National Insurance Number (still have N. Insurance Card) from living and working in the UK from 1984 until 1997. (Married in the UK in 1985 and 3 children born there, now adults).
Have Barclay’s Bank Account, but statements now registered to Irish address. Can the same National Insurance Number be reactivated and Bank Account changed to an English address again?

Yes

4. If some of the debts are in joint names, again can just the husband base his COMI in the UK or would both have to reside in the UK for a period of time? Is there any way around this?

See 1 above

5. Will your Irish Revenue Debt be cleared if you file and are successful obtaining Bankruptcy in the UK?

Yes

6. Left the UK in 1997 owing €1,500 to HM Revenue, would this have any effect on filing for Bankruptcy in UK?

None at all

7. Some of my debt is with 3 other people, where we had a company that went into liquidation a few years ago. Can I file for bankruptcy with my share of the debts. We had given personal guarantees when getting the loan from Bank of Ireland.
Click to expand...

You would write off the amount of debt stipulated on the PG, or if it was unlimited, the whole amount of the debt. The other two parties will remain liable either for a set amount or the whole amount

Steve Thatcher
www.helpwithdebtuk.com
 
F.A.O. Steve Thatcher
Dear Steve,
If a single man has €36K left on his mortgage which is his residential home, and files for bankruptcy in the UK. Is the OR likely to take his residential home off him. It was valued at €80K for the House Propety Tax which has just come into effect in Ireland.
 
In response to Annette's Q no 3, about NI number, I also lived in UK back in the 1990s and had to apply for a reminder of my old NI number to be sent to me so that I could carry on using it. Officially they really push for every UK worker to have the same number throughout rather than getting a new one.
 
Annette25 said:
If a single man has €36K left on his mortgage which is his residential home, and files for bankruptcy in the UK. Is the OR likely to take his residential home off him. It was valued at €80K for the House Propety Tax which has just come into effect in Ireland.
Click to expand...

So there is equity of at least 45K to pay his debts, I cannot see why the OR wouldn't want that. And I cannot see how the OR would have any interest in what value was put on a house by an individual for an Irish property tax.
 
Annette25 said:
F.A.O. Steve Thatcher
Dear Steve,
If a single man has €36K left on his mortgage which is his residential home, and files for bankruptcy in the UK. Is the OR likely to take his residential home off him. It was valued at €80K for the House Propety Tax which has just come into effect in Ireland.
Click to expand...


Yes a single man with a house in his sole name, when he goes bankrupt will have that property vested in the OR. It is the equity that the OR wants. Someone will have to get the money to buy out the OR at some point. If not he can put a charge on it or the OR can at the extreme apply for am order for sale

Steve Thatcher
www.helpwithdebtuk.com
 
Steve Thatcher said:
If not he can put a charge on it or the OR can at the extreme apply for am order for sale
Click to expand...

Steve does he normally put a charge on the property rather than ordering it to be sold. By charge I presume you mean a judgement mortgage?

Have you any case where you saw him ordering a property to be sold. It seems this option is rarely used. Would it be where the equity is very low what would his thinking be.
 
Bronte said:
Steve does he normally put a charge on the property rather than ordering it to be sold. By charge I presume you mean a judgement mortgage?

Have you any case where you saw him ordering a property to be sold. It seems this option is rarely used. Would it be where the equity is very low what would his thinking be.
Click to expand...

He would normally put a charge on, and by that it would be what we call a charging order. It would mean that when the property is eventually conveyed all the equity at that point however great it is would go to the bankruptcy estate, even if the bankrupt had been discharged many years before. Not a judgement mortgage

I have not seen a case where the OR has tried for an order for sale in Ireland. I suspect that it would be the OR's preference to try to do a deal, ie, see if someone connected with the bankrupt would buy out his interest. There would be an element of commerciality about dealing with this property.

Of course, if the OR did nothing, ie get a charge or order for sale or a deal after three years, it reverts to the ownership of the bankrupt again.

Another issue would be that someone has to pay the mortgage during all this or the bank could take possession. They would then sell. Redeem the mortgage and send the balance of the proceeds to the OR

All in all very complicated

Steve Thatcher
www.helpwithdebtuk.com
 
Thanks Steve for reply, I will pass on reply to the fella, who asked me to put forward his query.
 
F.A.O. Steve Thatcher,
Hi Steve,
I was listening to an interview you did on 01/11/2012 with BBC about Kilkenomics and Ireland's economy. You stated it costs the irish €5,800 to go bankrupt in the UK, but on watching all your videos on Youtube you state it costs £700. I thought if you move to the UK and set up your COMI there it costs you £700. I am confused about the different prices. Obviously if yourself helps with different areas in the bankruptcy you state for for an extra small fee you do this. Annette
 
Anette, Steve is a professional and has to be paid accordingly. So there will be his professional fee and then some expenses that pertain to going thought the bankruptcy, so I imagine a professional fee of about 5K and other costs of 700 GBP.
 
Steve Thatcher said:
He would normally put a charge on, and by that it would be what we call a charging order.
Click to expand...

This has not come up on AAM before. Only instalment orders and judgement orders. I presume that this 'charging order' is a UK concept, it may not exist in the Irish jurisdiction.
 
Annette25 said:
F.A.O. Steve Thatcher,
Hi Steve,
I was listening to an interview you did on 01/11/2012 with BBC about Kilkenomics and Ireland's economy. You stated it costs the irish €5,800 to go bankrupt in the UK, but on watching all your videos on Youtube you state it costs £700. I thought if you move to the UK and set up your COMI there it costs you £700. I am confused about the different prices. Obviously if yourself helps with different areas in the bankruptcy you state for for an extra small fee you do this. Annette
Click to expand...

Hi Annette and for anybody who picks up this link
The £700 is simply your court fee.
If you want to do all this yourself, filling the forms, getting the court set up, going to court, maybe doing a witness statement, making sure your comi is right and that you are habitually resident, that you will not be liable to an income payment order, that your property is being dealt with as you think, that the OR will be OK with you, that you can answer any question that comes your way, that you know when you can leave or any of a million other questions...
then £700 is all you pay

If you want to be represented then there is a fee. Brendan may tell me off but frankly you asked the question

I charge £3000 plus vat plus £700 for the court fee per person.

That's it. You get a 20 yr qualified solicitor. Nobody knows this process like me. I have written off €1.5 billion in irish debt in four years.

I dont think my you tube videos are confusing but these are the fees and facts.

If I have now done something wrong on the forum, no doubt this will be deleted

Steve Thatcher
www.helpwithdebtuk.com
 
Hi Steve,
Thanks for clarifying costs for me.
It is not an option for me to go to the UK to file for bankruptcy with my husband as I have a permanent job but my husband does not as he is a self employed plasterer by trade.
Some of our debts are in joint names and some are in my husband's name only. I do not have any debts in my own name.
Listed as our debts:
Repossession of Van €11,215.00 (husband's debt)
House Sale – Vat, Interest, Penalties €47,567.00 (husband's debt)
Bank of Ireland Loan (Local Branch closed down)- changed from Business A/c Overdraft €23,700.00 (joint names)
Ulster Bank Business A/C Overdraft €10,000.00 (joint names)
Ulster Bank Personal A/C Overdraft €5,000.00 (joint names)
Principal Private Residence €19,500 (joint names and in equity)
Residential Investment Property (buy to let) €123,867.61 in negative equity, similar house for sale in same estate for €55K.
Liabilities under Letters of Guarantee husband company director with 3 others now in liquidation, husband's ¼ share) €79,142.50
Total debt €320K.
If husband filed for bankruptcy in UK after setting up COMI there, I was told debt would fall onto me.
If we file for joint bankruptcy in Ireland we would probably stand to lose our principal residence, which we do not want.
Any suggestions on what our best options are would be greatly appreciated.
 
@Steve Thatcher

First of all fair play to you for your activity on this forum, yes u may get biz out of it but the amount of free advice you give out is more than what I say you receive.

Now on to my questions :)

My history

Property is shared ownership with the council bought for €140K worth about €30k now, I have moved out and offered keys back to council.

I have about €12K in unsecured debt and OH about €9k

I currently on invalidity pension and OH not working.

If we moved to the north would we be candidates for Bankruptcy?
How long would it be from when we move up to when we return to the south?
If I move up north I will be able to continue getting my pension and get it paid into a northern account. would I still have to get a National insurance number if I'm unable to work?
I won't be in a position to make the move until next summer is there anything we can be doing in the mean time to help us along?
 
Annette25 said:
For attention of Steve Thatcher please

1. If a couple file for Bankruptcy in the UK and for example the husband bases his COMI (Centre of Main Interest) there, can his spouse remain in Ireland where she has permanent part-time employment?

No, only the man would be able to file for bankruptcy. Th elide would not have established her comi in the uk. There may also be problems in that situation with whether the husbands comi had truly moved

2. Husband was born in the UK, would this make any difference to filing for Bankruptcy? (Moved to Ireland in the 1970’s and returned to the UK in 1984 until returning to Ireland in 1997).

No, it is the re establishing the comi which is key not where you were born

3. Previously had a National Insurance Number (still have N. Insurance Card) from living and working in the UK from 1984 until 1997. (Married in the UK in 1985 and 3 children born there, now adults).
Have Barclay’s Bank Account, but statements now registered to Irish address. Can the same National Insurance Number be reactivated and Bank Account changed to an English address again?

Yes

4. If some of the debts are in joint names, again can just the husband base his COMI in the UK or would both have to reside in the UK for a period of time? Is there any way around this?

Both

5. Will your Irish Revenue Debt be cleared if you file and are successful obtaining Bankruptcy in the UK?

Yes

6. Left the UK in 1997 owing €1,500 to HM Revenue, would this have any effect on filing for Bankruptcy in UK?

No, it too would be written off in the bankruptcy

7. Some of my debt is with 3 other people, where we had a company that went into liquidation a few years ago. Can I file for bankruptcy with my share of the debts. We had given personal guarantees when getting the loan from Bank of Ireland.
Click to expand...

I suspect your debt was joint and several, hence you would not be liable for any of that debt and they would be jointly left responsible for the whole


I hope this helps

Steve Thatcher
Www.helpwithdebtuk.com
 
Irish bank account when bankrupt in UK

Hi,
I hope someone can answer this. My husband and I will be going through the bankruptcy system in the UK later this year. Our current account in Ireland is with a bank that we do not owe any money to. I know they freeze your current account in the UK and advise your creditors in Ireland, but will we still be able to use this Irish current account when bankrupt. I'm currently on maternity leave and it's our only way out of a terrible mess!! We've had a terrible few years. I still will need a bank account for my wages when I return.
Regards
 
cerys said:
Hi,
I hope someone can answer this. My husband and I will be going through the bankruptcy system in the UK later this year. Our current account in Ireland is with a bank that we do not owe any money to. I know they freeze your current account in the UK and advise your creditors in Ireland, but will we still be able to use this Irish current account when bankrupt. I'm currently on maternity leave and it's our only way out of a terrible mess!! We've had a terrible few years. I still will need a bank account for my wages when I return.
Regards
Click to expand...

AIB and Permanent TSB are OK with allowing undischarged bankrupts to open / keep open basic bank accounts - once you don't owe them the cash. In the Statement of Affairs when petitioniong for UK bankruptcy - you are asked to provide details of all bank accounts (including statements for previous 12 months) - both closed and open - in Ireland and the UK. I'm not sure if the OR writes to the Irish banks that aren't creditors.
 
Can I go bankrupt in NIrl?

Hi all,

I'm going to direct my question to Steve! Is it possible to go bankrupt in N . Irl? If yes I am assuming that UK bankruptcy rules apply. Also steve Do u help people going up to N. Irl as I would be looking for your help.

Thx
V
 
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