Ireland the most English country in the World

[Duke of Marmalade]

I was in a French taxi recently when the driver asked me do we speak Anglais en Irlande. That set me thinking and indeed according to Wiki at 93% Ireland has the highest percentage in the World of people with English as a first language. I presume the other 7% are made up of Poles etc.
Selected other percentages are: UK 92%, New Zealand 86%, US 79%, Australia 70%, Canada 53%.

 

[TheBigShort]

I'd say its higher than 93%. Most Poles etc use English here as well.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I'd say its higher than 93%. Most Poles etc use English here as well.

I stressed first language. 98.4% of ROI citizens can speak the Queen’s English. Still higher than 97.8% for UK, 95.4% for US, 97% for Australia, 97.8% for NZ, 80% for Canada.

 

[TheBigShort]

I stressed first language. 98.4% of ROI citizens can speak the Queen’s English. Still higher than 97.8% for UK, 95.4% for US, 97% for Australia, 97.8% for NZ, 80% for Canada.

Ok, that is what I meant. My confusion, I accept Polish is the first language of the Poles.
But many Poles living here (I know of 2)dont use Polish as their first language. Instead they use English all the time with the exception of talking to other Poles. Which means that they now consider English their first language of use.
I know one Pole who spoke Polish all the time to his first child. 2nd and 3rd child, not so much. Apparently, its hard to teach!

 

[Purple]

I stressed first language. 98.4% of ROI citizens can speak the Queen’s English. Still higher than 97.8% for UK, 95.4% for US, 97% for Australia, 97.8% for NZ, 80% for Canada.

That can't be right; there's no way what AMericans speak could be described as the Queen's English (God bless her and all who sail in her!).

 

[dub_nerd]

...they now consider English their first language of use.

I'm gonna be pedantic and say your first language is the language you were brought up in, not one you've adopted even if it's the one you use the most.

 

[dub_nerd]

I stressed first language. 98.4% of ROI citizens can speak the Queen’s English. Still higher than 97.8% for UK, 95.4% for US, 97% for Australia, 97.8% for NZ, 80% for Canada.

I'm amazed English ability is so low in Canada. Wikipedia says it's somewhat higher at 85% but I'm still surprised. That makes it lower than either Denmark or the Netherlands. The major factor seems to be that nearly two thirds of Quebecois can't speak English, which I can only suspect is down to stubbornness.

 

[TheBigShort]

I'm gonna be pedantic and say your first language is the language you were brought up in, not one you've adopted even if it's the one you use the most.

Thats what I would have thought. But as the figure was high at 93% I incorrectly took it to mean first laguage of use assumed it was therefore to be higher.
Because if we go by your interpretation the CSO paints a different picture.
Accordingly, 612,000 irish residents spoke a foreign language at home.
I would assume these to be languages that the resident has been brought up in ie mother tongue.
So that would actually reduce our % quite a bit, somewhere below 90% anyway.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Ok, that is what I meant. My confusion, I accept Polish is the first language of the Poles.
But many Poles living here (I know of 2)dont use Polish as their first language. Instead they use English all the time with the exception of talking to other Poles. Which means that they now consider English their first language of use.
I know one Pole who spoke Polish all the time to his first child. 2nd and 3rd child, not so much. Apparently, its hard to teach!

Ahh! A further concept being introduced here - which country uses English most in its day to day communication? Very difficult to measure I would imagine, but Ireland would fall behind on this measure given the affectation of some to “curry me yoghurt” even though their first language is English.

 

[TheBigShort]

Ireland would fall behind on this measure given the affectation of some to curry me yoghurt even though their first language is English.

Whats with the adoption of infantile mocking over the Irish language?

Nevermind, CSO again....

1.7% of population use Irish on a daily basis as a first language.
39.8% state they can speak Irish or 1.7million.

Of that 1.7m only one in four said they never use it.

The largest cohort of daily Irish speakers is in Dublin (14,903).
111,473 speak it on a weekly basis.
As Gaeltacht areas are not exactly industrial hotspots its safe to presume that those that leave that area for employment probably reduce its usage, albeit it remains their mother tongue.

Perhaps the Duke could provide a link? As its confusing as to what the parameters are here. Canada at 53% indicates the question is about 'mother tongue' while usage is probably higher?
UK at 92% probably represents usage, while mother tongue would reduce that figure

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population uses two headings “Total English speakers” and “As first language”. No column for usage though some of the commentary is helpful.

 

[TheBigShort]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population uses two headings “Total English speakers” and “As first language”. No column for usage though some of the commentary is helpful.

Thanks for that, the column "total English speakers" would imply usage?
Ireland stands at 98.37%. A shortfall of 1.63% to hit the max. This figure almost correlates with the 1.7% Gaeltacht areas but I would hazard a guess it is more likely attributable to immigrants with no English.
In CSO 2016 census 86,608 people indicated that they couldn't speak English 'not well' or 'not at all'.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Thanks for that, the column "total English speakers" would imply usage?

I am not sure. Canada is the real interesting one. 53% English first language, 80% English speakers. As dub_nerd observes the Quebecois are the factor here. They would mostly be first language French but also be English speakers. However, on principle similar to curry my yoghurt I would think their usage would be mostly French.

 

[TheBigShort]

Canada is the real interesting one. 53% English first language, 80% English speakers. As dub_nerd observes the Quebecois are the factor here. They would mostly be first language French but also be English speakers.

That makes perfect sense to me. I would imagine when in Quebec, Quebecans (Quebecites?!?) speak French, when in British Colombia or other English speaking areas, they speak English. I think Toronto and Vancouver are both English speaking cities?
So those stats of 53% Engligh first language but 80% speakers make sense to me.

 

[Purple]

That makes perfect sense to me. I would imagine when in Quebec, Quebecans (Quebecites?!?) speak French, when in British Colombia or other English speaking areas, they speak English. I think Toronto and Vancouver are both English speaking cities?
So those stats of 53% Engligh first language but 80% speakers make sense to me.

22% of Canadians are immigrants (twice as high as here) so I'm sure many of them count English as a second language.

 

[TheBigShort]

22% of Canadians are immigrants (twice as high as here) so I'm sure many of them count English as a second language.

For sure.

Anyway, we are ahead of the pack in our English usage and English recognition as a first language - do we get a prize?

 

[odyssey06]

For sure.
Anyway, we are ahead of the pack in our English usage and English recognition as a first language - do we get a prize?

Yes, full appreciation of the cultural output of the Anglosphere... I type that while listening to a BBC radio podcast...

 

[Betsy Og]

given the affectation of some to “curry me yoghurt” even though their first language is English.

Grrrr, what's with this channeling the DUP??!! Long before the jailteacht was the gaeltacht. Just because some people think SF have weaponised the language does not make it so. I drove through Wales lately and its full of bi-linugal signs, and there are many in Scotland I believe. So for once I'd stand with those (not just SF btw) demanding an Irish language act in Norn Iron. It's either parity of esteem or its not. As the DUP tries to haul NI back to the 1600's, ROI is closer to Britain in many respects that the brethren up North (I thought that was going to be the subject of the thread...).

On matters NI, what did I pick up in a 2nd hand bookshop in a very english town (Had a Conservative Club, and even an odd Union flag...and odd one mind you, not plastered with them a la NI) only Falls Memories, by our very own culinary genius Gerry. It's ok, not rushing back to it, its fairly 'Penny Apples' type stuff, but good chapters about the linen industry etc. etc. Written in 1982 I think, dark times for such relatively light fare.

Gabh me leitsceal a cairdre, ta me "off topic" mar a dearfa. Codhladh samh.

 

[Purple]

Just because some people think SF have weaponised the language does not make it so. I drove through Wales lately and its full of bi-linugal signs, and there are many in Scotland I believe. So for once I'd stand with those (not just SF btw) demanding an Irish language act in Norn Iron. It's either parity of esteem or its not.

It's the "gail-gores" here that get to me. Their attitude that if you live on the side of a hill in Kerry, play the fiddle, speak pigeon Irish and live off hand-outs you are somehow more Irish than a native who speaks English. It's ironic that the Kerry Gaeltacht is the largest bilingual area in the country and the only place where we don't have bilingual road signs. They live off tourists and government and EU handouts and yet they ensure that nobody can read the signs. It's that smug superiority that puts me off.

As the DUP tries to haul NI back to the 1600's, ROI is closer to Britain in many respects that the brethren up North (I thought that was going to be the subject of the thread...).

I've always felt more at home in England than in Northern Ireland. England still feels foreign but Northern Ireland feels foreign and small and tribal and like something out of the past. My biggest fear post Brexit is that we'll end up with a united Ireland.

 

[odyssey06]

It's the "gail-gores" here that get to me. Their attitude that if you live on the side of a hill in Kerry, play the fiddle, speak pigeon Irish and live off hand-outs you are somehow more Irish than a native who speaks English. It's ironic that the Kerry Gaeltacht is the largest bilingual area in the country and the only place where we don't have bilingual road signs. They live off tourists and government and EU handouts and yet they ensure that nobody can read the signs. It's that smug superiority that puts me off.

Exactly, I have no problem with those who love the language or who treasure it as a cultural artefact.
I have nothing but contempt for the people who use it a virtue signal, as a cultural weapon, for whom it's more about making other people hear it and see it, than speaking it for the love of it.