Investing in Rabo Bank funds

allo

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Is it a good investing policy to invest in the above funds.It seems to me that all the spadework is taken care of but apart from buying their recommended fund of the month no other advice is given. As I am a rank amatuer at this game I haven't a clue when to sell, presently I am ahead by about 1000euros and I am enjoying the experience.I feel this method of small investment is right for me as I don't trust irish ba nks or their recommendations.Thanks in advance for any advice
Allo
 
Be sure to make yourself familiar with the associated tax issues for all funds except the Oppenheimer ones. If you do a search for related threads you will get some info.

Personally, I found the taxation issues to be such a pain that I discontinued my investment with the funds.
 
Please see the following link regarding the tax treatment of ALL RaboDirect funds. [broken link removed]

You are able to download statements which detail the profit and loss on each fund transaction. To make life easier for our customers we will be developing a calculator that will make it very simple for you to determine your profit (or loss) each year. For example, if you made three transactions in the same fund in one year you will have bought them at different prices. The calculator will do the hard work for you in determining the overall profit. We will release this calculator in our secure site in the coming months.

Regards,
RaboDirect
 
It would make life easier for the customers if Rabo deducted and paid over the tax to Revenue like other fund providers.
 
Must agree with you there, I pulled out of my funds with them as I couldn't get a handle on the tax.
 
You are able to download statements which detail the profit and loss on each fund transaction. To make life easier for our customers we will be developing a calculator that will make it very simple for you to determine your profit (or loss) each year. For example, if you made three transactions in the same fund in one year you will have bought them at different prices. The calculator will do the hard work for you in determining the overall profit. We will release this calculator in our secure site in the coming months.

Unless Rabo actually start collecting tax and handing it over to the revenue there is no way I would reconsider using Rabo investments. The fees charged are not justified when you are forced to do all the difficult work yourself. I could buy into a greater range of funds and ETFs through an online brokerage like Internaxx and enjoy the same administrative headache, only with much lower fees.

My brother is a tax accountant and I got him to look at the Rabo funds and he certainly considered the taxation issue to be non-trivial. If for example, I cash out a particular fund at a profit and then immediately reinvest in another fund, it is his opinion that tax is liable on the profit despite reinvesting. However, this would not be the case with many other funds (Quinn Life for example).

Rabo deserve plaudits for both the extensive range of funds available and the ease with which money can be invested but the taxation issue makes them unsuitable for ordinary investors, in my opinion.
 
Have to agree - whatever the technical reasons might be for leaving tax issues to the customer, in my opinion putting the burden of figuring out the tax issues onto the customer erodes one of the key advantages of investing indirectly in shares through a unit linked fund: simplicitly*. In addition the standard charging structure of 0.75% on entry and again on exit along with annual management charges which can be bettered is another incentive for people to look elsewhere. Just my tuppence worth.

* Having said that the recent discussions about the Finance Act 2006 (?) rules which seem to imply that 8 years in any unit linked fund or UCITS triggers a capital gains milestone at which point the investor must calculated gains and assess the tax due seems to erode the tax simplicity of indorect investments generally! There are some recent threads on this issue which doesn't seem to have received extensive coverage elsewhere (e.g. in the media).
 
I cannot understand why Rabo will not deduct this tax at source. This is a major disincentive to invest in this product.

Given that tax is not being deducted at source I would at least have expected more thorough information to be provided on the website. A link to revenue.ie which throws up hundreds of different forms really doesn't suffice.

Does anyone know what form a PAYE taxpayer should submit to declare income from these funds?
I am speculating that Form 12 is required and the income should be declared under "Untaxed income arising in the state - other investments"?
However I am not sure whether Revenue will tax this at the correct rate of 23%.

[Re searching for information in previous threads - I have already trawled through several other threads on this issue and was unable to find a conclusive answer]
 
BTW - just checked with somebody in the business and it seems that while the new 8 year rule that can trigger CGT events while still invested will apply to most or all unit linked/UCITS funds the provider will normally deal with this tax issue within the fund and notify the investor. I thought that the investor might be individually responsible for dealing with it.

I suspect that the forms needed for filing/paying CGT arising from the Rabo funds are [broken link removed].
 
I cannot understand why people are finding it hard to understand the tax issues here......if you cash in fund, you pay 23% tax (gross roll up and not CGT) on profit...if you make a loss on an encashed fund in same year deduct from profit and then pay your 23% on the remaining amount.....what is so difficult about this????...am i missing something???
 
oh sorry, then again i think revenue 'fifo' rules apply.....which makes it a bit messier!!

the form you use is not a cgt form...it is 'Form 12'...thats what revenue handed me.
 
Please see below some further clarification from our website re tax treatment: [broken link removed]
scroll down to 'Tax'. Apologies for the length of the post.

Why are RaboDirect funds taxed differently to some other Irish funds?

All funds offered through RaboDirect are sold as either Undertakings for Collective Investments in Transferable Securities (UCITS) or SICAVs, a UCITS set up in Luxembourg. A UCITS is a type of fund structure that is freely marketable within the European Union. 20 of the 23 funds available through RaboDirect are Luxembourg based SICAVs. In these circumstances, the investor must self-assess themselves for Irish tax in respect of any increase in value on the investment on the disposal of the investment or on the eighth anniversary of the investment. Each investor must make the necessary timely returns to the Revenue in order to avail of the necessary tax benefits outlined above.
3 of the 23 funds available through RaboDirect are Irish UCITS. Irish UCITS are usually taxed at source. This means that the fund administrator collects and pays over any tax liability to the Revenue on behalf of the investor. However there are a number of exceptions to this rule and one of these is where the funds are held in a recognised clearing system. The units in the Irish UCITS offered by RaboDirect are held in a recognised clearing system. In a clearing system the details of the underlying investor (customer) are not available to the administrators for the purpose of making tax deductions at source. As a result, the investor must again self-assess themselves for Irish tax in respect of any increase in value on the investment on the disposal of the investment or on the eighth anniversary of the investment. Each investor must make the necessary timely returns to the Revenue in order to avail of the necessary tax benefits as outlined above.

What happens if I sell one RaboDirect fund and invest in another?

Investor is liable to pay tax on the increase in value of the investment when they are selling one RaboDirect fund and investing in another. There is no exemption on the tax payment if investors decide to buy another RaboDirect fund. From a tax point of view they are considered separate transactions​

What is my tax liability if I buy units in the same RaboDirect fund at different times and then sell some of these units?

While Revenue do not have a preference for the method of calculation used, First in, First Out (FIFO) is the most common method of calculating the tax charge where a person hold units in the same fund which have been purchased at different dates. FIFO is where the units bought at the earlier date are considered to be disposed of first. The example below illustrates how FIFO works:
For example
2005 bought 100 units in X fund @ €1 per unit
2006 bought 100 units in X fund @ €2 per unit
2007 sold 150 units in X fund at @ €3 per unit
Total Gain =
150 units @ €3 (sold in 2007)= €450
So following the FIFO rule
100 units (bought first in 2005) @ €1= €100
Then
50 units (of the 100 units bought in 2006) @ €2= €100

Total amount liable for tax is the gain made from the transaction so
€450-€200= €250
Therefore the investor is liable to pay tax on the €250 gain he made

This example is for illustrative purposes only.

This is only a general tax summary. Individual circumstances may differ. The tax situation may change in the future. Taxation is a complicated issue and we recommend that you seek advice from a tax adviser.
 
I cannot understand why people are finding it hard to understand the tax issues here......if you cash in fund, you pay 23% tax (gross roll up and not CGT) on profit...if you make a loss on an encashed fund in same year deduct from profit and then pay your 23% on the remaining amount.....what is so difficult about this????...am i missing something???

Actually if you make a loss on one fund and a gain on another you cannot offset one against the other. It is not one "umbrella" fund but multiple funds, each of which must be treated and declared separately on encashment, for tax purposes.

It is entirely possible to make a loss over the course of the year and still owe taxes to the revenue!

As I said, in my opinion a bit of an administrative nightmare and not really suitable for the casual investor.
 
This is only a general tax summary. Individual circumstances may differ. The tax situation may change in the future. Taxation is a complicated issue and we recommend that you seek advice from a tax adviser.
To answer the question above - I think that this is why people find this stuff hard to understand.
 
Be sure to make yourself familiar with the associated tax issues for all funds except the Oppenheimer ones. If you do a search for related threads you will get some info.

Personally, I found the taxation issues to be such a pain that I discontinued my investment with the funds.
 
thanks all for advise , the tax issue seems to be a nightmare, but tax apart, as previously stated I am about 1000 euros ahead and I have zero knowledge on when to sell, should I toss a coin or hold on for a specific time?
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