Impact of more liberal UK Bankrupcy laws on SME's and small creditors.

Yes I and others borrowed recklessly, but for that to happen, banks had to lend recklessly. Borrowers acknowledge this but banks, government, courts, ECB to not acknowledge this reality.

Lets say there was a reset option, you hand back all the property etc that you acquired and you can walk a way debt free. Would you accept such on offer, a simple yes or no?
 
Dont think you quite got my drift here. I meant I wasn't being glib(not you).
You seem to insinuate in opening post that the rape of children was a lesser evil than a bank manager lending €1m to someone on a €30k salary

Certainly not, any crime against chidren is the lowest of the low. and bankers are not rapists. By and large they are good people doing a tough job in difficult circumstances.

The point that I make is that the mortgage crisis is not simply a monetary or economic issue. It has wider implications for society and famlies that will be felt for years to come and is not being addressed. It also has a huge impact on mental health and any chance of returning to economic growth. It is harder now to get a business loan/mortgage today than it was in 2009.

We have money to save unsecured foreign banks but helping our own people is too expensive and socially unacceptable.

Have we considered the cost of not solving the matter?

I believe the next generation will believe we wasted the moeny we had on a solution that did not address the problem.
 
Rarely have I agreed with someone as much as I have with Artemis.
Artemis -you may not think it but you are still young still and I would absolutely push you to tell the banks that you just cannot pay. You've evidently tried your best ,you're not well, you have children to look after.
And ,even though you're not even seeking this, if the banks don't let you off, then leave. Leave and start afresh.
 
It is harder now to get a business loan/mortgage today than it was in 2009.

Banks have finally started to apply the same lending principles as the rest of the EZ - meaning the loans are based on capacity to repay not just asset value. So typical mortgages of say 2 or 3 times the salary of the main income earner will be entertained by the banks, but beyond that will be hard to come by. Similarly, since about 9 out of 10 SMEs fail on average, you can expect that companies will be carefully scrutinized before they are considered for any loans.

Furthermore, as we move closer to an economic union with the other EZ countries you can expect that to remain the case. Given the fact that most EZ countries do not particularly support the concept of home ownership, I would expect that that will have consequences for Ireland as well going forward.
 
Property assets have crashed by 50% to 80%, yet there has been no meaningful solutions proposed by banks and government.

Bankruptcy IS the solution. Why is any other solution necessary?

As to opting for the more liberal UK regime - that's your right as a citizen of the EU. It doesn't mean that Ireland is obliged to bring in a similar one, or that it would be in our interest to do so.
 
Bankruptcy IS the solution. Why is any other solution necessary?

As to opting for the more liberal UK regime - that's your right as a citizen of the EU. It doesn't mean that Ireland is obliged to bring in a similar one, or that it would be in our interest to do so.

Sure, Lets continue as we are. It's working so well, why would we change things? There is certainity and stability in the economy and that can only be a good thing.

We have a clear strategic plan on how to continue on the road to prosperity. We just need to continue to execute and implement the master plan currently in place. The last thing we want to do is change direction mid-course. Look at the progress we have made since 2008. We might undo some of this good work, such as the cheapest bail out ever at no cost to the tax payer, NAMA has succedded in bringing stability to the banks and our national pension reserve is perfectly positioned for the next gereration of homeless pensioners.

We have never had it so good.
 
Might be better to move to LOS because there's a lot of nonsense being posted on this subject just now
 
Bankruptcy IS the solution. Why is any other solution necessary?

As to opting for the more liberal UK regime - that's your right as a citizen of the EU. It doesn't mean that Ireland is obliged to bring in a similar one, or that it would be in our interest to do so.

The problem is that bankrupty in Ireland is currently not an option for most people, so they cannot get on with their lives, they cannot put an end to the debt and they cannot become productive members of society again, never mind all the psycological harm it is doing to people.
 
It's like the stupid Irish divorce laws, people had to move on so they went to the UK, Europe etc to get closure.
 
After three years of economic meltdown it may not be productive to keep chewing over who is to blame. The truth is everybody shares the responsibility.
Im my opinion people need to decide how they are going to move on. Your Government seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. It is asking you as a nation to give up more in austerity so it can pay back to international investors the money it guaranteed they would get as aresult of the failure of your banks. So it does seem that you are getting no where.
If the state is not helping you collectively you need individually to help yourselves.
If you cannot carry your debt for the rest of your life don't do it go bankrupt.
If you have a moral code that says I borrowed it and so will repay as much as I can then good.
But each must make up their own mind, there is no right or wrong.
Ireland needs its entrepreuners to start creating wealth again. These are also the people with huge debt around their necks.
I am now seeing these people trun up in England, go bankrupt and start the process of being able to begin again.
John Fleming is now discharged from bankrupty and he owed £1b. he is back creating wealth. I can name a string of others who will do so.
These people will come back to your country debt free and hungry to start the economy thriving again
 
That's very well said Steve. It is time the Irish people moved on and realised the government is not going to help them and people need to start helping themselves. And people should realise they can help themselves.

Have you seen an increase monthly in Irish people going bankrupt over there? Or is it a steady trickely, are there any statistics on the numbers?
 
Well said.

I have finally started dealing with a bankruptsy practice in the UK. It has taken me over a year to realise that the Government will do nothing.

Hand back the keys and move to the UK. It's a sinking ship here. The sheeple or Government will do nothing, only analise it on the the Joe Duffy show. The day of talking is over; people need to start moving on and end this charade once and for all by filing to go bankrupt.

Bronte, Steve can confirm better than ,I but from what I hear through the company I am dealing with, is it has steadied somewhat but 2009 saw a massive increase.
 
I have finally started dealing with a bankruptsy practice in the UK. .

Wishes can you tell us your experience of dealing with a UK bankruptcy practice and I presume there are costs, can you outline those. Also how did you pick the particular company and are you happy with them.
 
Hi Bronte

The bankruptcy company I am dealing with are also debt management practitioners. They came highly recommended by a guy I work with.

As costs go we are talking anywhere from a few hundred pounds to a few thousand depending on the enormity of the debt involved.

When you get over making that initial telephone call it feels like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders. I am a grown man but I sat for hours and cried my eyes out, I am embarrassed to say!

I have been working two low skilled, low paying jobs, to pay 66% off the interest on my mortgage. The bank was not happy so I took the liberty of contacting the UK. I doubt they will be happy when they see I am calling it a day and filing for bankruptcy!

I couldn’t continue the way I was going. I was getting four hours sleep per night. My health was beginning to suffer and I felt I Was being treated like a criminal by my mortgage provider. It was a no win situation.

I have learned a lot from taking these first steps. It’s been an education to say the least. Firstly the powers that be done everything they could, by putting rule after rule in place to prevent these UK debt management companies getting a piece of the action over here. Insolvency and debt management have been going on in the UK since time began so there was nothing these guys couldn’t overcome.

Secondly very little repossessions have occurred in this country anyway, so they expect a surge within the coming months if the banks stop playing ball.

Lastly, the Irish institutions have been lenient on borrowers compared to that of the foreign based lenders in the country, who have every intention of going to court.
 
As a "Banker" I can empathise with many of the comments made above and the prediciment of the OP. I agree that there is a shared responsibility for the high level of borrowings advanced to people with little thought of ability to repay. I would also agree that poor Banking Practises were complicit in the unsustainable debt burdens taken on by both individuals and companies. However, this issue is now a moot point as the resultant problems are currently evident and need to be dealt with.
At present, Irish Banks are not dealing properly with the problems of their overborrowed clients. there are a number of reasons for this;
1. Absence of a properly functioning property market. I.e. difficulties in selling assets at all or at a level that will not result in singnificant negative equity/residual debt.
2. Awaiting movement from the Gov'mt on revised insolvency legislation. Nobody at a top level appears to be driving this forward. It appears to be the poisoned chalice that no Minister wants.
3. Inability to make decisions to w/o portion of unrecoverable debt. Since the Bail-out the Irish Banks have procrastinated on decisions that would involve further loan losses, however logical & inevitable those decisions appear to be.
4. Lending impasse within the Banks. For various reasons Banks are currently/unwilling/unable to lend money. This restricts the circulation of funds in the economy and stifles recovery. Given the current funding and structure of the Banks, there is no obvious short term solution to this issue.
I agree with the basic tenets and arguements made by the OP. We need our entrepeneurs to rid themselves of this debt burden & to contribute positively to the economy. There must be an exit strategy for those people who are overburdened by debt and it must be both fair and equitable. Despite the aversion to writing off debts and belief that those who borrowed must be seen to pay for their mistakes, surely the overriding need of this economy is to start the climb out of this pit and for all to contribute towards a future where we can both learn from past mistakes and improve our living standards and those of our children. In order to do this we need to focus on positive action, however unpopular that may be?
 
What exactly do you mean by that???

I mean get back to work, maybe create jobs, lift the cloud from their shoulders, stop the suicides and uplift the Irish mood in general. There are many bright young Irish people who gained a lot of experience during the boom and yes during the bust too and if they were left have a second chance it might bring an upswing in Irish society.
 
When you get over making that initial telephone call it feels like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders. I am a grown man but I sat for hours and cried my eyes out, I am embarrassed to say!

.

That's a very honest post Wishes, I'm so glad you are feeling better. You never know, you having the gumption to write that might inspire others.

I'm a bit wary of debt consolidation agencies, be very careful. How do they charge, by a percentage of the debt? Could you give more details of your experience, you don't need to name the UK company.
 
Back
Top