That's a bit harsh!
If alcohol disappeared overnight, the courts could close down - discuss.
- Thread starter deanpark
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More boards.ie whataboutery. Ask the statisticians who make those decisions.
@Purple that's a stretch even for you. Gotta call nonsense on that one, addiction is not a crime, nor are other mental illnesses.
We've been here before and I have yet to see any convincing evidence that that's the case. Per capita consumption measurements don;t do it.
The problem is alcohol, not the form it comes in. It's like this nonsense people talk about soft and hard drugs and gateway drugs. Every addict has a drug of choice or class of drugs - depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens or even poly-drug habits.
A person who is addicted to alcohol doesn't end up in court or with a criminal record because they are caught in possession of alcohol. A person who is addicted to illegal drugs does. Criminalise the sale and distribution of drugs but not possession for personal use. It serves no purpose.
Poly-drug use is very common, often accompanied by alcohol use and mental health problems. People in that category are treated as criminals, not patients. That serve no purpose either, except the Legal Aid merry-go-round.
A person found in possession of legal psychoactive drugs without a current prescription is also breaking the law. The notion that a person with a mental health issue is guilty of a crime is utterly ridiculous, throw all the boards.ie shapes at it as you wish. 18th/19th/early 20th-century thinking surfacing again?
Yes, and can be arrested for it.
A person who is using illegal drugs is committing a criminal offense since possession of illegal drugs is a criminal offence. If caught in possession of those illegal drugs they will be arrested because they have committed a criminal offence.
This really isn't hard to understand.
If they are addicted to alcohol they won't be arrested for being in possession of alcohol.
If addicted to gambling they won't be arrested for having a short pencil or the Paddy Power App.
Therefore two types of addiction are treated as a medical issue and the case of the other the addict is first criminalised before anything else happens and, from close family experience, the medical industry does everything they can to not help. The Gardaí are brilliant and so all they can not to criminalise addict but the hospitals will turn themselves inside out to not help. The Gardaí go out of their way trying to get help for addicts but since they get no support form the medical industry the addict inevitably ends up in court. They do what they can but it's just a revolving door of dozens or even hundreds of petty charges while the people who are meant to help don't. They are trained to do it and paid to do it but it's too much hassle.
I've never been on Boards.ie so I don't get the reference.
That's totally different to saying someone suffering from a mental health issue is guilty of a crime. The charge in your example will be "possession" if found in possession or "possession with intent to supply" if the quantity is big enough. They are never charged with "being addicted to substance X, Y or Z". That notion is crazy, as "being addicted" is not a crime that appears on our statute books.
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Come on Guys! Didn't you know? Alcohol abuse ceased in Ireland by the recent minimum pricing of alcohol and some months ago by the removal of points from alcohol sales towards supermarket discount.
Now we have a judge supplying more content for every stand-up comic in the country.
What's next? - Prohibition?
Now we have a judge supplying more content for every stand-up comic in the country.
What's next? - Prohibition?
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Their crime in being in possession of the substance they are addicted to. They are criminalised and so the medical sector can wash their hands of them. Thankfully the Gardaí are more enlightened and compassionate that the medical "professionals" and do what they can to avoid destroying the lives of people who need help more than they need punishment. Unfortunately there's only so much they can do when the people who are trained, qualifies and paid to help turn their backs on those they are charged with helping.
I never said it was. I said that in effect their addiction is criminalised when possession of the substance an addict is addicted to is criminalised.
As I said previously I dispute this contention.
Now it seems statistics from NI agree with me unless there is some mysterious way for alcohol deaths and harm to increase in the face of decreasing consumption.
Northern Ireland records new high for alcohol-related deaths
However, unlike England and Scotland, NI did not see a significant rise in such deaths in 2020.
www.bbc.com
Oh "but that's No'rn Ir'n" they say, "we're different!" No, we're not, it's an island-wide problem that needs to be tackled on that basis. Denying there's a problem isn't the least bit helpful.
The article even says:As I said previously I dispute this contention.
Now it seems statistics from NI agree with me unless there is some mysterious way for alcohol deaths and harm to increase in the face of decreasing consumption.
Northern Ireland records new high for alcohol-related deaths
However, unlike England and Scotland, NI did not see a significant rise in such deaths in 2020.www.bbc.com
Oh "but that's No'rn Ir'n" they say, "we're different!" No, we're not, it's an island-wide problem that needs to be tackled on that basis. Denying there's a problem isn't the least bit helpful.
"statistically significant increases were only seen in England and Scotland"
Scotland has MUP. England does not. Shows how effective it is.
NI population is also increasing. The per capita rate is different to the overall raw number as a trend.
Alcohol consumption per capita has dropped over last 20 years in ROI. Its not a contention. Those are the stats. If you disagree please share those stats.
Fact: Alcohol consumption has dropped 23% since 2001.
So obviously there is some way reduction in overall consumption does not translate to reduction in harms.
Which is precisely why I am questioning policies which aim to reduce overall alcohol consumption rather than focusing on harms.
Assuming the tracking of those harms is consistent over time, it may not be.
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Part of me thinks the problem is that's too much hassle and involved doctors from Trinity and the Royal College of Surgeons consorting with the riff-raff. Better to just have the Gardaí round them up if they are drunk on the street of beating up their missus.
Or mister
19 court cases reported in my local paper this week, 7 were drink related and either involved criminal damage or threatening behaviour, 5 were for drug possession and the other 7 were the usual litany of no insurance, shop lifting etc. So the Courts wouldn't close down but they would be a lot quieter.
Did the court really only deal with 19 cases all week or is this selective journalism where they're picking out the more interesting stories?
Go and sit in your local district court for a session. There will be loads of drug offences, loads of driving offences, and quite a few public order offences related to drugs and alcohol. There'll also be the unpaid fines people etc.
Circuit courts don't sit everyday but I have no doubt there was other cases not reported as well. It's also probable that some of the shop lifting and theft cases were being done to feed a habit of one kind or another. What is depressing in a country town is that you start to recognise the names, the families and the patterns. Maybe targetted supports for some of those families is needed and certainly more addiction support services are badly needed and could be an investment worth making.
Baby boomer
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Highly recommended. Everyone should do it. You will be astonished at the leniency shown towards "petty" crime. You will also get an appreciation of exactly how a great big chunk of your hard earned tax payments are being spent.
Sounds like a normal day in court, all right.
Yes, the legal aid merry-go-round. An utter waste of time, money and lives but sure it pays the bills and builds careers.
At the core of most criminality is a stretch.
At the core of most incidents of assault, public order, domestic incidents and criminal damage incidents would be more accurate.
People rob money to buy drugs, people shop lift goods, people sell drugs, crime is part of human nature, its always with us, heroin cocaine is a multi billion dollar industry and it depends on social attitudes . Eg the crime is very low in Japan Partly why crypto coin is booming is its a good way to launder money for drug dealers and hackers. America has gone to far the prisons are full of black men who were just selling hash which is legal in many states even in North Korea theres crime mostly smuggling in goods that are not sold in the shops .