I think I’ll go on strike

Excuse my simple ignorance, but I cannot see how public sector strike action can do any good whatsover to help solve the economic crisis.

For example the union representing workers in social welfare offices have voted to go on strike. Please tell me how shutting down dole offices to the most vulnerable in society is fair and an effective way of protesting against the Govt ?

This kind of action is bullying and akin to blackmail - with the unemployed as hostages held by the union until they get what they want for THEIR members.

On a related point, I wonder how many people would have turned up at last Sats march if no penson levy had been introduced.

It all makes sense when you consider that the unions are just doing what all other sectional interests do - farmers, consultants, developers, taxi drivers etc ... Shout and protest until the Govt gives in and to hell with the rest.
 
redstar said:
On a related point, I wonder how many people would have turned up at last Sats march if no penson levy had been introduced.
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On a related point, since the Gardai were marching and they calculated the numbers I wonder how many people actually marched?
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Well in my dept for a start. I asked a number of people why they joined and they said they felt they had to. More said "ah sure i don't want to cross a picket line "
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They really need to grow a pair, don't they? If we were in a "UK miners strike" environment, with mobs roaring about scabs on the picket like, I can understand this view, but this hasn't happened in Ireland in 20 years, so unless you have some information about actual intimidation happening, they would be well advised to grow up. I find it strange that you interpret "ah sure i don't want to cross a picket line" as being the result of some kind of intimidation or threats. I would interpret this as a statement of solidarity with their colleagues.

redstar said:
Excuse my simple ignorance, but I cannot see how public sector strike action can do any good whatsover to help solve the economic crisis.
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What else can the union do? If the Govt won't listen at the negotiating table, the union have few other options when faced with a fundamentally unfair action (the pension levy) but to take industrial action.

I agree that there should be no disruption to social welfare, and indeed I spoke at my union branch AGM recommending that front line services be considered as emergency services not to be interrupted by any industrial action.
 
Complainer said:
indeed I spoke at my union branch AGM recommending that front line services be considered as emergency services not to be interrupted by any industrial action.
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out of interest are any union members questioning fat cat union leader salaries, expenses and directors fees?
 

Think what ya like, i know what was said to me......i'll interpret it as baaaa baaa baaa.....i'm a sheep
 
I am no fan of unions but they have a place in our society, standing together is a natural human instinct.

My problem with unions is that they are far too powerful. This brings me to the crux of my concern. They are too powerful because the people who govern you and me are weak. We should stop complaining about public service and unions. All these organisations were allowed/funded to grow out of control. The people hired to run the country failed miserably. Our government have a responsibility to protect our state from harm, they didn’t.. My anger lies with them.
 
Complainer said:
This says a lot more about the individuals in question than it does about the trade union movement.
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Well like it or not they are the union movement......

Q. Why are you striking ??

A. Ah sure ya have to.......

This is the mentality you are dealing with, monkeys with votes. Or should that be sheep, baaa baaa baaa.
 
I would love to know why public and civil service employees have been singled out for this pension levy.

They aren't the ones who caused this economic mess.
 
S.L.F said:
I would love to know why public and civil service employees have been singled out for this pension levy.

They aren't the ones who caused this economic mess.
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Its a pension levy in name only. Its wage cut plain and simple.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Its a pension levy in name only. Its wage cut plain and simple.
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Our goverment in it's wisdom has deceided that a wage cut is bad because it means that existing pensioners will get less too and future pensions will be lower too. And if I get it right their pensions also would be affected, what less money to berti? No Way!

So they needed a way arround that to not upset one of their best voting folk so they deceided let's call it a pension levy.

But as usualy it was not thought through, first is was on gross than on net salary and than they found if it is for their pension, than we need to give them tax credit too.

So instead of coming up with a fair balanced approach (which values the guarenteed pension to a certain amount to be invested and than split it in something like a 60/40 way) they have deceided just to TAX. This is nothing else than a TAX.

I'm all for streamlining the public service and making them pay for their pensions (in fact I might be one of the loudest complainers about it) but come on, this levy is not fair implemented.

Now don't get me wrong I have no sympathy for overpaid civil servants bringing in 100,000 € a year for messing up our country but you can' throw the whole public sector in one boot.

There are a lot of areas where we immedialty could cut back and others where we could streamline.

But please call the big white elephant in the room a big white elephant and not a "large white object that might move" as with this TAX.
 
jaybird said:
...He might have found not many people sitting next to him in the canteen afterwards...
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So you don't think that this type of exclusion in itself is a form of bullying?

I would say the handbooks of the HSE, County Councils and state depts would think so.
 
S.L.F said:
They aren't the ones who caused this economic mess.
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Generally speaking no. But then again, generally speaking, the private sector did not cause it either.

Anyway it's not the point at all. The government pays the public sector wage bill and they now can't afford to. Simple as that. So the workers are being asked to contribute more towards their pension.

Private sector companies who can't afford wage bills are cutting pay, letting people go or closing altogether.
 
Caveat said:
So the workers are being asked to contribute more towards their pension.
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You are totally incorrect about this.

The Pension Levy is just a tax there is no benefit to Public Servants whatsoever if you read the legislation you will see this for yourself.

Do you think it is fair that 350,000 people should be singled out for this tax?
 
S.L.F said:
...there is no benefit to Public Servants whatsoever...
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I never implied there was a benefit. I don't understand your point.

Do you think it is fair that 350,000 people should be singled out for this tax?
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What do you mean by 'singled out'?

Fair doesn't come into it I'm afraid. It is what it is. Would you have the government borrow more money instead? Because that's the only alternative as far as I can see.
 
I just think we should have a level playing field. As far as I can see the reason there's a levy is because the unions couldn't countenance direct cuts in wages, which would have been the most straightforward approach. Or they could have used benefit-in-kind on flexi-time or holiday allowances above 20 days or all defined benefit pensions. Or both/combination. If it wouldn't have taken forever and a huge number of consultants to figure out, I'd suggest that they could have even benchmarked it to the private sector but you don't hear too many unions looking for that at the moment.
 
Caveat said:
I never implied there was a benefit. I don't understand your point. .
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You said the Public servants are being asked to contribute more towards their pensions but this levy is not being used for the pensions

Caveat said:
What do you mean by 'singled out'? .
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If 1 section of the work force is hit by a tax and nobody else is then they are being singled out.

Caveat said:
Fair doesn't come into it I'm afraid. It is what it is. Would you have the government borrow more money instead? Because that's the only alternative as far as I can see.
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I would have preferred if our govt had put some thought into shoreing up resources for the coming months instead of blowing them all to make their developer friends richer.

I would have preferred it if they hadn't wasted billions on the failed decentralisation.

Or how about not to have dropped income taxes so much.

In order to make ends meet they should raise everyones taxes.

Personally I can't understand why the Greens are still in govt with FF, if they had an ounce of credibility they would pull out of govt and call a general election.
 
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