How to insulate this kitchen

[SomeRandomer]

So I have a kitchen in my 3 bed semi that was added on at some point in the 80s. It has no insulation at all and is baltic in the winter. It's 6 m wide x 3m deep, with a thick arch wall separating the dining room and kitchen.

Regarding the structure, it has a suspended timber floor and twin leaf walls. There's a 2m sliding door and a window that's about 3m. It has a raised roof on the outside but a flat ceiling on the inside. There's an air gap between the ceiling and roof which I rolled some insulation into years ago, but not a lot. The floor tiles have developed hairline cracks over the years as I'm guessing the joists have shifted slightly over time, or else the joists got wet at some point and maybe the ventilation isn't working as it should.

I had the rest of the house dry-lined internally several years ago, so the other rooms stay reasonably warm after the heating has been on for an hour or two.

I'm basically wondering about the best way to insulate the space without spending crazy money on it. Here's what I'm thinking of having done:

• detach the kitchen units, then rip up the floor and insulate between the joists
• lay marine ply or OSB on top of the floor joists, then either tile or lay pvc / vinyl flooring
• plasterboard all the internal walls
• pull down the ceiling, insulate between the ceiling joists, then vault the ceiling
• replace the existing window and sliding door with new ones
• re-attach the kitchen units (I realise this could be difficult as the space will be smaller, so hoping to hear if anyone has done this)

I might also knock the wall between the kitchen and dining room to open it up a bit.

Is this something a good DIY person could do, or would I need a carpenter or builder?

Would love to get thoughts and feedback on this if anyone has done something similar.

 

[DannyBoyD]

If you are spending the money, I'd be inclined to demolish & rebuild a decent sized extension.

No disrespect, but the kitchen units aren't worth re fitting & by the time you pull everything out my money is on you finding a host of issues re plumbing, wiring etc that you are currently unaware of.

 

[Bronte]

I'm basically wondering about the best way to insulate the space without spending crazy money on it

Firstly I do love pictures. If you do it cheap you will not get what you want to achieve.

Being brutal you need to open up that space and get a new kitchen.

- the layout is awful
- diswasher ill fitting
- opening the oven has no space I think to put down the hot tray
- fridge beside oven, and in doorway
- get out 3 builders and see that they say
- decide how much money you can really afford
- consider modern warm lino instead of tiles, did this recently as an experiment and many of the workmen loved it, told me they hated cold tiles but couldn't get 'the wife' to change them
- kitchen top units to meet ceiling, the gap is awful
- kitchen is too small, opening it up gives you a lot of space
- there is an awful lot of openings/doors - 5 in total
- really plan this, use Ikea planner or similar to give you ideas, my eldest did this for me and it was brilliant, we had a row over my insistance that the kitchen units start a decent bit in from the door
- consider closing off the kitchen to hall door
- what's the 2 door thing on kitchen back wall? A cupboard?
- where is the washing machine?
- buy the best insulation
- how is the roof
- maybe the kitchen on dining side would work better
- you have a nice garden view, this must be considered

Obviously it depends on budget

 

[_OkGo_]

It has no insulation at all and is baltic in the winter.

I can't see any sign of a radiator or heating in the kitchen... how is it heated?

 

[SomeRandomer]

@Bronte thanks for the detailed answer and the brutality . The 2 door thing is a pull-out larder, if it's the tall one to the right of the dishwasher that you mean. The washing machine is in a space under the stairs, to the left as you come in the door. The roof is in good nick thankfully.
@_OkGo_ there's a rad in the dining room underneath the kitchen table. It's not very effective though.

 

[Bronte]

No I mean to the left of the red bin! Is that therefore the washing machine ? In thru small doors under the stairs.

You’ve hardly any counter space, must be really difficult to prepare food. It’s a classic mistake not enough counter top.

No heating in the kitchen and one rad heating the dining room chairs. We put in two upright rads on our recent renovation to stop living wall space and to keep them away from windows.

 

[Purple]

I'm getting a major job done on my house at the moment. Looking at the plans and the current layout I think a single room would be a much better use of the space. You'll need an engineer to look at that and to certify plans and the build. I'd then close off the entrance to the front living room so that there are two distinct spaces.
If you really want to fix the insulation then look at the grants available and design with the aim of maximising what you can get.

If you are able to knock the extension and start again (that might not be that much more expensive than fixing what is there properly) then going out an extra meter would make a massive difference.

 

[Bronte]

Looking more closely if he closes off living doors from dining he’d have to put a new door into it from hall. Currently there isn’t one. Purple is correct about different living spaces. The full open plan trend is on full throttle on new builds as builders seek tighter spaces, but it actually doesn’t work well for families. You need separate living spaces so someone can be cooking in the kitchen, dad having visitors in the living, kids studying at dining table after school, mum working from home on Tuesdays.

Taking down the extension means he loses the roof, which he says is fine. We don’t know budget. So our suggestions may not be feasible. Having said that, in your forever home, you won’t regret the outlay, it will revolutionise the house. And Purple is correct, if you take down the extension you should increase the size.

One important point, light, do not underestimate its importance.

What extensions have your neighbours done. Copy other people’s good ideas.

 

[Purple]

One important point, light, do not underestimate its importance.

If possible have a roof that gets higher as it extends from the house. I don't know the orientation of the house but if the back is north facing then skylights are a bit pointless as the extension roof will be in the shadow of the back of the house. Get your glazing as high as possible at the back. If you get the roofline of the extension up to the height of the wall you share with your neighbour you will get another 300-400mm of window height. That makes way more of the sky visible when you are sitting at your kitchen table and that will make a massive difference to light levels and how big the room feels.

 

[odyssey06]

IF you demolish the extension then in rebuild you will be on the hook for modern planning regs. I can't tell from the photos how much width you have on either side - mentioning it in case e.g. the current extension is part of the party wall.

 

[SomeRandomer]

@Bronte:
- Yes, the washer/dryer is to the left of the red bin, behind the small doors which is the space under the stairs. The gas boiler is there also.
- There is already a door into the living room from the hall, it's not shown on the plan.
- Neighbour attached to my semi-d knocked his kitchen and rebuilt from scratch. He went out an extra meter and got a flat roof with roof light. It cost him 90k though and that was only a builder's finish, he still had to pay for the kitchen after that. That's way over my budget

Agree regarding open plan, I never liked it. I can't imagine trying to watch TV while someone is cooking and banging pots and pans. Regarding your upright rads what do you mean by "to stop living wall space and to keep them away from windows."?

@Purple:
- Would love to knock the whole thing and start from scratch, but it'd cost too much. The existing roof is in good nick, so I'm hoping to keep costs down by using the same footprint and leaving the roof as is (but vault / raise the ceiling on the inside).
- The back is west facing and gets the sun from about lunchtime until evening.
- I've thought about closing off the entrance to the front living room which would make more room for storage, but the room is already pretty dark as it doesn't have a window. I divided the living room years ago to make an extra bedroom / office at the front.

@odyssey06:
- I share a party wall with the neighbour on the right as I look out into the back garden, so the current extension is part of the party wall.

More pics below including a plan of the full downstairs of the house.

 

[Bronte]

How much money have you before we go spending it for you? Is this your forever home? How many in the house.

What would you love, this is different to what you can afford.

 

[Bronte]

Randomer I’m going to have to be more brutal, firstly you’re very brave to post those. Really impressed you did. It’s pretty disastrous. But let’s see what can be done. So let’s start with needs. Your garden looks bright and airy, it’s a tired house that needs work, it seems a decent size. Your neighbour, what is their value versus yours.

The living room with no window! This is a depressing house. Do you need the front room study? Return to full living room, with study/desk area is a cheap option. Close off double doors. Move dining table away from radiator. Repaint, refloor.

What is on the outside “shed” to right of terrace picture.

Honestly the first step is figuring out your max budget, and your wants. Second step is 3 builders to get ideas.

 

[SomeRandomer]

How much money have you before we go spending it for you?

My budget is max 40k.

Randomer I’m going to have to be more brutal, firstly you’re very brave to post those. Really impressed you did. It’s pretty disastrous.

Thanks, I stopped caring what people think a long time ago

The living room with no window! This is a depressing house. Do you need the front room study?

You're right it is a tad depressing. I'm looking at it so long though I guess I've got used to it. The extra front room / study is a big benefit for me as I have music gear and weights there, and I don't really have room for those in the bedrooms upstairs (I have a wall bed in the front room / study that folds up when not in use). It also gives me a separate space if someone is watching TV in the living room.

What is on the outside “shed” to right of terrace picture.

There's a small shed on the left as you look out from the kitchen. The garden is around 7.8m wide and 13.5m long (see extended plan below).

In my head I've already broken the work down into three different approaches, so going from cheapest to most expensive:

1) Remove kitchen units, insulate and replace kitchen and dining room floors, insulate the walls, put back existing units
2) Same as above, also knock internal wall, vault and insulate ceiling, replace existing window and sliding door
3) Full kitchen remodel: insulate and replace kitchen and dining room floors, knock internal wall, vault and insulate ceiling, add new 2m sliding door and build up walls 2m each side, install new kitchen

I've already got three different prices for option 3 above: two were builder's finish, 27k and 36k, and one was builder's finish plus fitting the new kitchen, 33k. The guy quoting 33k was the best option, but given the cost of a new kitchen plus allowing for 10% unforeseen extra costs, the total price could be up to 48k or 50k.

So this post is about option 2 above and how to go about it. Of course if money was no object I'd knock the entire thing, extend out by a metre and go the whole hog.

 

[ClubMan]

More pics below including a plan of the full downstairs of the house.

That skylight looks like it's leaking badly?

 

[SomeRandomer]

That skylight looks like it's leaking badly?

It was, it used to leak when there was heavy rain and the wind was in a certain direction. I've had it fixed since but haven't got around to re-painting it

 

[S class]

I would recommend quickstep vinyl flooring. Great quality, dead easy to lay and more importantly it can be easily relifted without any damage if access under the floor is necessary in the future.

 

[SomeRandomer]

I would recommend quickstep vinyl flooring. Great quality, dead easy to lay and more importantly it can be easily relifted without any damage if access under the floor is necessary in the future.

Any thoughts on putting in a concrete floor vs leaving the floor joists there and insulating between them? I was gonna go with concrete originally, but I'm guessing it's cheaper to just insulate the joists, then either new OSB or marine ply on top, then possibly the quickstep.

 

[Leo]

I was gonna go with concrete originally, but I'm guessing it's cheaper to just insulate the joists, then either new OSB or marine ply on top, then possibly the quickstep.

Kingspan have a handy guide and calculators to show you how this should be done and the insulation thickness required. Marine ply would be overkill though, it's specified for outdoor use and more expensive than what you need here.

 

[SomeRandomer]

So I've been back and forth with a builder and we're agreeing a scope of work. Below are a list of things I have to supply:

- the new kitchen units
- 2.5 metre uPVC (or Aluclad) sliding door
- 2 vertical radiators
- Either LVP / LVT OR laminate OR Marmoleum flooring for 6 x 3 metre kitchen floor
- internal double doors
- light fittings / spotlights

Kitchen: the kitchen is a 6 x 3 metre rectangle as visible in the pics. The inner wall between the kitchen and dining room will be knocked, and I'll replace the existing window and sliding door with a new 2.5 metre sliding door in the centre, so the new kitchen will be an L shape on the far side with some extra units and possibly a breakfast bar on other walls, no island or anything else fancy. So far I've been in touch with Ikea, Howden's, and Cherrymore. Ikea would be around 7k excluding fitting, and the other two would be around 10k, including fitting for Cherrymore but not Howden's.

Sliding door: I've started searching and there's a bewildering amount of window and door companies out there. So far I've looked at Fairco, Revolution, KK, and am planning to contact Wright tomorrow. Fairco and Revolution both quoted over 5k for standard uPVC which to my mind is pretty expensive. Other prices I've seen online are around 2.3 - 2.5k which (I think) is supply only.

Rads: had a quick search but no clue as yet where to go.

Flooring: trying to decide between LVT / LVP or laminate. I always though laminate would be risky in a kitchen due to the risk of a dishwasher or wm leaking, but from what I read laminate seems to be pretty waterproof these days.

If anyone has recommendations on any of the above I'm all ears, much appreciated