Help for All my Family

Have you had a look at the Oasis site? Have you checked with Social Welfare to see if he's entitled to anything? See what your mother might be entitled to alone. With all the will/heart in the world, you may not be able to help your mother out on an ongoing basis. It's not fair to you and any future partner you might have.
 
HelpASAP said:
His Parents are still alive in Cork,He will have to go live with them. My mam and the rest of us are sick of him to a certain extent.although I do still love him but This post will be deleted if not edited immediately he makes it incredibly hard. I am a financial consultant myself but This post will be deleted if not edited immediately I have never came across this. I can advise my mam on various pension plans(well the house I buy in 10 years is her pension plan). and the bonds to invest in but Am i doing the right thing by saying we have to seel the house?
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Yes, that's fine.

You should also advise them to divorce because, otherwise, if, Heaven forbid, anything happened your mam, and she had no will, your father could inherit her share of the proceeds from the house sale.
 
I'm really sorry to hear of this situation - i feel desparately sorry for your mum and admire your dedication to helping her. I know someone who behaves like your dad, and it gets to the stage where they just become a leech on everyone else - sometimes you just have to cut them loose for you own sanity and protection, even though it hurts to do so very much.

Re Social Welfare - you can write to your local office and someone will call out to your house and speak with your dad and your family directly regarding what he is entitled to. Your mum should write to revenue outlining the same information to see his prsi entitlements etc - they will deal with her as she is his spouse, though probably not with you.

I think it's a good idea for your dad to live with someone else - it might give him the shake up he needs as your mum won't be there to pander to his every (probably) self indulgent need.

Also, you are very young to shoulder this alone. Do try and talk it over with someone older.

good luck!
 
Hang on here why do you you feel that you have a moral obligation to your mother but not your grandparents who you want to lumber wiht a chronic depressive in your twilight years? Just because they are alive does not mean they will be any more able to cope. Sorry to block the "only way out" but i feel you are trying to find a fix, talking your mother into seperation and posting your father off to Cork.
Also, he has been actually out of work for just 3 months. That is not long.

I seriously would look into them moving down the country to a cheaper house and not looking into renting in their latter years.
 
You should not rush into selling the house. I don’t think your maths work out and you haven’t allowed for inflation. Also you assume that your mum will live for about another 14 years. Life expectancy today for women is in the lower 80s, so you need to budget for at least 30 years. The 170k won’t last that long. Also if your mother, e.g. became incapacitated, needed home care or you yourself became unable to look after her, her situation would be rather bleak. I suggest you consider selling the house only as a last resort. Also, it’s your inheritance so you shouldn’t dispose of it unless absolutely necessary.
You need to sort out your father’s social welfare entitlements. You say: “We have asked the nurse to chase this up which she is doing but we cant wait for him and cant live with him just claiming welfare”. There are two issues her. First of all it is not the nurse’s responsibility to sort out your dad’s welfare entitlements. You need to do this, e.g. by speaking the community welfare officer, or social welfare. You should also tear up his credit cards. If you cannot face the task of confirming your father’s entitlements is there an uncle or aunt or some other family member who can do this for you? As to: ‘cant live with him just claiming welfare’, I suggest you leave all value judgements and decisions such as this out of the equation until the finances are sorted out. If your dad is entitled to socail welfare the situation may not be that desperate (financially).
You should discuss with his parents the possibility of them giving you a short term loan to tide your family over this immediate crisis. It would be better if they did this rather than have your father dumped on them (which I don’t think would be a good idea).
You really need advice from an older person you know and trust, ideally
a relative, as you are too young to carry this problem yourself.
 
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In responce,

I dont really care where my Dad goes at this stage,if he goes to his parents well then fine but they have known about his condition for years now and not helped in 1 little way so he can live in a ditch but he isnt living with us anymore. He has had countless chances,time is up,goodluck to him.He has ruined all our lives for years,no more,he can ruin his own but aint ruinin mine or my mams.

Oh I forgot to mention sat down again last night with the family,My dad wants to go into Hospital,lads trust me they wont admit him because he wont co operate with whatever they ask him to do,this is a man who thinks he is always right and that it is always someone elses fault
 
Is it possibly that a section order committing your father to psychiatric care might be an option in this situation? Of course this being a medical matter it should be discussed with the medical experts. I say this not as an option to get him out of the way but in case it might be the most beneficial alternative for all concerned.
 
HelpASAP said:
In responce,

Oh I forgot to mention sat down again last night with the family,My dad wants to go into Hospital,lads trust me they wont admit him because he wont co operate with whatever they ask him to do,this is a man who thinks he is always right and that it is always someone elses fault
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If his GP refers him to hospital they will admit him. Psychatric hospitals have a lot more experience in dealing with mental health issues than you give them credit for. They will also provide help in sorting out welfare entitlements, if you ask the hospital social worker to be involved.

I appreciate your feelings of frustration, but depression is an illness. Selling the house and dumping him on his elderly parents probably won't solve your problem, but getting help in place for him (both financial from benefit entitlements and medical) will help. Then if your parents go their separate ways, so be it.

Also, you will not be able to fix this all by yourself. Do ask for help, but do not expect your dad to do anything. Until he recovers from the mire he is in, you will always be disappointed.

The thing is, it is impossible to offer financial advice in this situation as it is so tied in with mental health issues. Mental health care in Ireland is not of a high standard, but some services do exist, so try to get your dad access to them. Then let the professionals help.
 
1. Get social welfare to help you with the forms. Bring them home for your dad to sign, and take them back in yourself.
2 Go see the psychiatric social worker once your da is under the care of a psychiatrist. They can sort a lot of things out, including residential care if he neeeds it when he is discharged from hospital.
3 Look after yourself and your sister. You do sound awfully stressed.
I wish you the best of luck with this awful situation.
 
HelpASAP said:
My mam has been living through this hell for years now and enough is enough,we sat down the other night as a family and asked and pleaded with my Dad to get help or then we will have to seel the house, he said he cant get help,Im not being selfish for my Mam here but this Man has had a million chances and he has been so selfish over the last few years,now he has made himself ill,and make no mistake about it,it is his fault he is ill. My Mam has no money,she keeps saying she is leaving him and has done for the last few years but didnt cause of guilt. Now I am stepping in,If I dont my Dad has threatened to kill himself plenty of times and If I dont step in now it could kill my Mam with stress. Your right in saying it isnt my decision but I am not willing to stand by and watch my Dad kill himself and ultimately end up killing my Mam with stress and worry. Like at the moment pure and simple my Mams life is a misery and has been for years because of him.
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I really have to sympathise with you here as my parents have been through a similar position, except when my Dad's business failed he had 14k of debts outstanding on top of his mortgage (he had remortgaged to the hilt) not even counting a 5k VAT bill from 5 years ago thats still outstanding, but he naively believes that because the Revenue haven't come back to him since they came out to him about a year ago they've "forgotten" it (wrong wrong and wrong!). Like your mum, my own mother has been through the mill with his not paying bills on time and then finding out that the phone was cut off.

Men of that age grew up in an age where it was considered au fair to be totally selfish and to expect the women in their lives to kneel down and pray to them, and fulfill their every need. I think you guys have to be very clear with your Dad that this situation is unacceptable, regardless of his health. My Dad has just had a mild attack (basically as a direct result of years of overeating and zero exercise, plus starting to drink again a couple of years ago), so he's not in a totally different situation except that he loves working and we nearly have to physically stop him going back to work!

What I would suggest is that you consider putting your Dad on disability benefit - if you Mum wasn't working they'd get about 280 a week between them and could get medical card etc.

They shouldn't sell their house - remember its your Mum's home too, unless you really all are set on throwing him out.

I can understand your reluctance to give more money up, I am guessing that your siblings are like my own, and as a result of having to hand up such a lot of money over many years couldn't afford to save enough to buy yourselves.

Would consider putting your Dad on disability for a while and seeing if it helps, however wouldn't be inclined to sell the house since its everybody else's home too.
 
It sounds like your father is suffering from a mental illness such as depression, though of course it is not possible to do any kind of definitive diagnosis via an internet bulletin board. I do hope that if you are ever suffering from a self-destructive mental illness, your nearest & dearest will not turn their back on you. Get him to his GP, and have a good chat with the GP yourself.

I would also suggest that the primary decision maker on decisions about terminating the relationship and/or selling the home needs to be your mother, not you.
 
Hi there
I'm not going to read all replies......
What you are suggesting here is that you parents seperate.
Do You think your father is severely depressed. If so you should do your best to get him care - have you tried getting him into hospital again for
proper evalaution. This, in my opinion is the 'Help for All my Family' that you may need. I know you have tried, sectioning is not nice, but may be an option
Does your father not claim social welfare?? If he is in hospital he could be on Social welfare sick pay - and then perhaps move to disability. That would be some extra income, albeit small.
Perhaps the money you gave to your mum would be better spent on this.
Sorry - what does your mother want from all this - you seem to be talking the rein, but these should be her decisions. This talk of an investment property, seems more for you.
Are you still living in the family home? You cannot just think that somebody else should be lumped with him.

If the whole situation is a tolerable as you say then get your mum to file for divorce - who know she may get more of a share to the home etc.
Has he racked up many debts??
Sorry, you can't make these decisions, & if you don't like the answers is because you don't really say whether you mum wants to really go or not.
Don't 'advise' her into something she may not be 100% on - sure then you are just as bad as your father's generation that you talk about.

You say your father wants to go into hospital but they won't admit him. What does this mean, is he drunk, will he not sign himself in?? He would need to something awful for a Physichiatric hopital not to take him.

With a proper assesment you will have a better standing. I will have to co-sign agreements etc I would imagine. Solicitor may not allow this unless his state of health improves.
(P.S.) Try & get support of older relative etc. aunts/uncle. I know by your post that you blame him for your mum's situation, you also need to deal with this to clear yourhead & make better decisions.
Hope you have made progress in past month. You can't make any financial decisions till you deal with these issues.
 
I'm very sorry to hear about your circumstances, HelpASAP. It's good to see that you are receiving so many helpful suggestions from the Forum.
Your Father, specifically his condition, is the basic problem here and resolving it is IMO the only solution that will take care of everyone's needs long-term.

I hate to have to use a term that for many people is highly emotive but naming a problem is often a pre-requisite to solving it. Have you faced the fact that he may have a mental illness and if unable to help himself as is often the case in such circumstances, the family, your Mother in particular, may have to consider taking more drastic action? Nothing along these lines can be done without the involvement of his GP so my suggestion is that you meet with that person and consider all the options that are available. To learn more I would like to refer you to [broken link removed] and its Information section. Speaking to them might also be a good idea.

Please accept my best wishes for a swift resolution to your problems.
 
I have to say that I agree with Clubman, HelpASAP your father is incapable of making a rational decision with regards to selling the house. If he can't decide to get out of bed, then he cannot decide to sell a house and understand the consequences.
Going on what you're saying and the manner in which you are putting your argument across I feel that you, your sibling, and your mother are bullying your severely ill father and it is possible that you are contributing to his condition. By paying all his bills and taking responsibility for his CC bills you taking away any control he would have over the situation.
If you are all sick of him, cannot stand living with him and feel that he has copped out altogether, why don't the 3 of you move out and rent elsewhere? That may give him the momentum to take control of his own life and situation. He cannot live on nothing so he will have to get out of bed and help himself. When he is seeing things a bit clearer, then let your mother arrange to meet him at a mediation and they can then discuss the issue of the family home.
If you want to help him, contact www.aware.ie and get to a family meeting where you can understand the impact of depression and how it effects people on a day to day basis, how to help him etc.
 
I was so sad to read this post HelpASAP. At 22 you should be living your own life ... not burdened by the overwhelming responsibility of your parents!

I think they probably expect too much of you and by providing money to cover credit cards etc. you are probably only making a bad situation seem better ... instead of forcing them to face up to the situation themselves.

I would suggest you take a step back. You must recognise that your parents are a separate unit within the family ... they are both adults with more life experience than you and they should be treated as such. They need to make hard decisions about their lives, but if I were in your situation I would make sure that it was them who did the deciding. By all means offer support ... but don't talk them into anything they don't want to do.

Have you considered leaving home? Perhaps you and your sister could get a place together? It might be just the wake up call your parents need. I think perhaps you are too close to the issue to see the whole picture.

I would never even dream of suggesting that you encourage your mother to separate from your father ... how would you feel if he recovered and they got back together ... would you be blamed for causing the spit in the first place. I would say that you don't give your mother enough credit for being a competant adult ... she should be making her own decisions ... there are plenty of qualified support agencies out there that will assist her. You should not be burdening this responsibility yourself.
Good luck, I hope tomorrow will be a brighter day for you all.
 
Dear HelpASAP, several people have given some very sound advice to you, I am however not certain that you yourself are likley to listen to any of it.

For what it's worth.

1. Your Father is clearly suffering from severe depression.
2. Your Father is in need of caring and professional help.
3. The last thing your Father needs is you taking control of anything unless you want to propel him into suicide.
4. Your Father looked after you when you were unable to look after yourself, your Father is unable to look after himself because he is suffering from depression.
5. You are approaching this situation from a purely financial perspective, you, your Mother and anyone else truly interested in your Father's welfare need to take a serious look in the mirror, when you've done that go and find out something about the symptoms of depression before your Father dies from it.

Please start here [broken link removed]
 
HelpASAP said:
In responce,

I dont really care where my Dad goes at this stage,if he goes to his parents well then fine but they have known about his condition for years now and not helped in 1 little way so he can live in a ditch but he isnt living with us anymore. He has had countless chances,time is up,goodluck to him.He has ruined all our lives for years,no more,he can ruin his own but aint ruinin mine or my mams.

Oh I forgot to mention sat down again last night with the family,My dad wants to go into Hospital,lads trust me they wont admit him because he wont co operate with whatever they ask him to do,this is a man who thinks he is always right and that it is always someone elses fault
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To helpasap, The way you have written about your father is, frankly, shocking. Cant you see how the man has reached bottom. Your posts are very one-sided. Its mam,mam,mam. Your father and mother once loved each other and this you would not know about. Both of them reared you and your sister ,cared for and educated, clothed, did Santa at Christmas and all the little things that parents do for their children. Now that the man has lost hope , has no self esteem, has to endure you and probably your sister ( his children) finally tear him asunder ,you are ready to dispose of him.

so he can live in a ditch but he isnt living with us anymore. He has had countless chances,time is up,goodluck to him.He has ruined all our lives for years,no more,he can ruin his own but aint ruinin mine or my mams.
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