Help for All my Family

H

HelpASAP

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Ok guys this is a long one for thanks for your patience in advance.

Let me give you some background

I am 22, my sister is 24, my mother is 50 and my dad is 52

Five years ago my Dad took redundancy from a company he worked for 25 years. He decided to go into business and opened up a shop, it failed after a year and put both my mam and dad under sever presure. My dad then worked as an Sales Agent for Acorn Life, that also failed. To cut a long story short he basically scraped by working for civil service for last year but that ended 3 months ago and the man is in severe depression as he cant get a job. We asked him could he please do Hackney driving and I would provide the money to start up in terms of car loan. He said he cant do it, now folks I know that sounds amazing but he doesnt get out of bed,he has been assesd for several nurses and went to doctors and sought help but he goes once and never goes back again as he says they dont help.

Here is my problem.

My mam is working part time and earning around 220 a week. I myself am paying my dads credit cards along with covering some bills along with my sister. My mam has no money as everything she earns pays bills. We have no mortgage left Thank god but my mam is living a life of missery and has been since my dad took retirement as he really hasnt had any solid income for 5 years. It has reached breaking point and me and my sister stepped in the other night and said this cannot go on. We told my dad months ago that if he isnt willing to do the hackney and cannot find a job then we will have to consider selling the house to raise funds as at the moment my Mam has NOTHING to live on, she has been shouldering his repsonsiliby for years now. I have lent my mam 10k but I cant go on lending her money because its only a short term solution. My dad simply will not do ANYTHING about this. I have now come to the realisation that he is not mentally able to work and this could take years to get him better, And unfortuanely we do not have years. Folks, in plain plian English, we have been struggling the last few years and now my Mam has NO MONEY left and her husband is not going to provide.

What we suggested is as follows.

They have to sell the house. They would recieve I think around 380k (valuation ordered for Tuesday). Say after tax and selling % they would be left with 170k each (I dont know the exact taxed, I need to find this out).

With that 170k they would need to rent somewhere,My mam would be ok as her pay would pay the rent and then she could use the money to live off. Realistically she would spend around 9k per year living. I want her to put 65k of this money into a 5 year bond so that in 5 years when her money runs out hopefully she will have a return of around 75k to then live off for the follwing 8/9 years. Now I hear you ask well what happens then?

Well I have decided that it will be down to me. I am looking to buy a house next Summer to get on the property ladder asap. My aim being that in 10/15 years when this money runs out I will have to invest in another property which my Mam can then live in rent free and call her own. I know this will put strain on me but what else can I do. WE HAVE NO MONEY, MY MAM IS UNDER ENORMOUS FINANCIAL AND HEALTH PRESSURE, THIS CANNOT GO ON. HER RELATIONS CANNOT HELP. LOANS ONLY ARE A SHORT TERM SOLUTION.APART FROM SELLING THE HOUSE WHAT OTHER SOLUTION DO WE HAVE? MY DAD WILL NOT GET OUT OF BED!!!!!

And folks I would appriciate the no one make suggesstions like "Well your dad will have to cop on and relaise what is going on" Trust me on this one it has been said not a million but a billion times. I really dont know what my dad will do. His Parents are still alive in Cork,He will have to go live with them. My mam and the rest of us are sick of him to a certain extent.although I do still love him but This post will be deleted if not edited immediately he makes it incredibly hard. I am a financial consultant myself but This post will be deleted if not edited immediately I have never came across this. I can advise my mam on various pension plans(well the house I buy in 10 years is her pension plan). and the bonds to invest in but Am i doing the right thing by saying we have to seel the house?

Cheers everyone,

I know selling the house is a massive massive step but it is that desperate!
 
Firstly if they sell the family home there is no tax liability although there will be advertising and legal fees. I take it your mother is willing to split from your father? This is not a decision to be taken by you or your siblings.

Your father is obviously in the depths of depression. Has your mother spoken to his doctor and explained exactly what is going on with him? It's important for all of you to realise that it's not a case of him not bothering to drive a hackney....he's not capable by the sound of it. The worst thing that can be said to a depressive is 'pull yourself together'...they really can't!!

Does your father claim unemployment benefit or social welfare? I imagine he's entitled and there may be other reliefs that your mother can claim. Sorry I couldn't be more help. I'm truly sorry to hear of your predicament.
 
Thanks for the reply,good to know about tax and the selling agents will charge .6% around 3k.


I agree my Dad in my opinion cannot work,he metanlly and physically now cannot so it is not a case of not bothering,but I have lived with the man for years and there was a time when we told him it would be very hard to get a good job at his age and that he should do taxying but he refused to,what he did instead was work for the civil service and hated it so much he rang in sick every week,I dont know how he didnt get sacked.

Its da bu he is so bad now that he is bedridden, and he would of been entitled to Social Welfare but he never bother to chase it up and never registered himself as being unemployed so . We have asked the nurse to chase this up which she is doing but we cant wait for him and cant live with him just claiming welfare,its not fair on my mam,for years she has carried him and is she be expected to do so for another 10 years and waste her life????

It is very bad, I have to admit selling the house for anyone is a bad idea but ultimately its the best option we have.

We have 2 choices

1) Stay as it is and live in missery in the hope my dad will regain his life an dget better,we have asked him to do this plenty of times and offered our support in helping him get help so there is nothing to suggest this man will ever change


2) Sell the house so my mam will have a sound/happy life financially until 65 when then I will be able to help her financially and she can retire without money worries,If she left things as they are she would have these money problems till the day she dies,she told me the other night she has high blood pressure and gets pains in her chest with the stress of it all so if things stay as they are anything could happen to her.


The main advice I was seeking was what to do with the 170k she gets from the sale as unfortunaelty it looks like we have to sell
 
Do your parents have to split up after the sale of the house? Why rent after the sale of the house? Why dont they sell the house and relocate to somewhere smaller or somewhere else in Ireland. I moved from Dublin to the midlands. Bought a bigger house and still made a good profit. Why don't they retire to a smaller house in the country. It might do wonders for your father's health and clear any on outstanding debt. A new start is maybe what they need and you can get on with your own life.
 
Could be an idea,but I think my Mam has had enough,and ultimately its not a house they need its money and my dad looks like he never will provide,if they move down the country then my mam wont have her job anymore and whatever chance my dad has of getting a job will reduce as obviously down the country there are less opputrtunitys,MY Mam and Dad may aswlel be split up and besides my dad is causing my Mam huge stress problems which are effecting her health
 
Do some research.There are more jobs down the country than you think. Both your parents could find work. There are plenty of jobs. They could make a good profit selling the house and live off proceeds for a while. Look at main towns like Athlone or Mullingar.Think about it.Would be a better option than renting or splitting up.
 
You know (I mean this kindly) none of these decisions are yours to make. Does your mother WANT to leave your father? Is she just so down at the moment that she can't think straight? In those circumstances I understand her need to turn to one of her children, but the hard decisions remain hers and not yours. You seem to assume that your Dad will agree to a sale...he might not!! Your whole family needs help from a professional.

Mr. Liteweight has done his best for his family all his life. He is the same age as your Dad. If, for some reason, he could no longer do it, I hope I'd step in. I know that's easy to say but if your father AND mothr get some help, they may be able to regain what they once had. Perhaps this is what your mother would prefer........she just can't see how to get it at the moment.
 
My mam has been living through this hell for years now and enough is enough,we sat down the other night as a family and asked and pleaded with my Dad to get help or then we will have to seel the house, he said he cant get help,Im not being selfish for my Mam here but this Man has had a million chances and he has been so selfish over the last few years,now he has made himself ill,and make no mistake about it,it is his fault he is ill. My Mam has no money,she keeps saying she is leaving him and has done for the last few years but didnt cause of guilt. Now I am stepping in,If I dont my Dad has threatened to kill himself plenty of times and If I dont step in now it could kill my Mam with stress. Your right in saying it isnt my decision but I am not willing to stand by and watch my Dad kill himself and ultimately end up killing my Mam with stress and worry. Like at the moment pure and simple my Mams life is a misery and has been for years because of him.
 
Mate I dont mean o be rude but I did mention earlier I didnt want any suggesstion about my Dad getting help. We have asked him do to this a BILLION times and he wont, he plain and simply wont so Please everyone do not suggesst this again. IT IS NOT AN OPTION
 
Please do not use all caps in your post(s). . And please make the title of your post relevant. posting guideline 2.
 
Hi there Helpasap

I'm very sorry to read of the situation of your family. It's a pity your Father refuses the help he obviously needs but I can understand it. Apart from depression his self esteem must be at rock bottom. It seems to me an increase in the household income might provide some breathing space even temporarily. Whether or not he might be eligible for a Social Welfare Allowance depends on a number of factors (I'm not an expert).

You said your Father worked for 25 years. Did he pay PRSI? Hopefully the answer is yes. I was glad to read that in the past year he was employed in the civil service and again, hopefully, had PRSI deducted. In that case there are a number of Allowances/Benefits for which he might be eligible - Disability Benefit/Allowance. Here is the Oasis link:-


You might also consider the idea of talking to your local Community Welfare Officer for advice. I agree that moving elsewhere might not be a good idea. I presume that releasing equity in the house or an interest only loan would not be a solution in the circumstances?

This is too big a problem for someone so young to try to solve alone so I do think talking to someone familiar with situations like this might help you, e.g. a CWO. I can well understand how you see your Father as responsible but a step as great as selling the family home is a decision for your parents to make - your Father might not agree or even your Mother.

Your greatest concern is for your Mother - understandably. However it is often a fact that couples prefer to live with less than ideal circumstances rather than separate. Only they can be the judge of that. It might be that you are too close to the situation to assess it objectively, which is why I suggest talking to your local Community Welfare Officer. You must talk to someone outside of the immediate family - that's my opinion anyway. When people are too close to a problem and have been weighed down for years a solution may seem impossible when that is not always the case. Take advice and see what happens - Good luck.

PS I hope your Father has torn up the Credit Cards and is not incurring further debt. It could be that in five years time he might regain his health and be able to take charge of his life. Don't forget he probably did his best for his family for 25 years.
 
All my dad ever says when asked a question is "I dont know what to do" and no he isnt running up debt because he wouldnt get up out of bed to do so,instead I have to get 10k loan out and I have been paying his credit card bills the last year now.9k on them.

His self esteem is low but he never ever ever ever does anything about the situation. He wont go for help,he cant get a job,he wont get out of bed. Simple as this he wont do anything about it an never will EVER!!!

We have to sell the house as hopefully by getting money for 10/15 years it will allow him to get up without the worries of money and get help and ultimately get a job although a think his marriage is over and I do feel sorry for him but lads it is 100% his fault. In fairness he was unluck with the business he set up but the way he has acted and responded to it is discusting. My mam continued to go to work with the exact same money problems as him and what did he choose to do do, he said he said he cudnt face work and sat in bed eating crisps watching TV while his wife went out to work to earn money to pay the bills. At times he really is a discusting excuse of a man
 
Your Dad is very sick from the sounds of what you have told us. If he is depressed, then he will be acting out of character and he physically will not be able to listen/care/respond to anything you ask. I think you are underestimating his illness, and you should all sit down as a family and tackle this issue first and foremost! There are some great medications out there now, and if your father was to attend a GP, and if needs be you should all make him go. He could get his life back on track very quickly.

I really don't think it's a fact or he won't more he can't.
 
Hi HelpASAP,

Your family situation sounds desperately painful, I can only imagine it occupies your every waking moment, life must be impossible at the moment.

You will get excellent financial advice here, as I have done, but your family's problems seem a whole lot more than financial, so maybe you should also look to other sources for advice and help? I'm not sure this forum is the best place.

All I want to say is that I hugely admire your concern for your mother, there are a depressing number of households in this country (and I have personal experience of a couple) where the mother is viewed as the father's 'supporting cast', as if she was only put on this earth to prop him up, and her own needs are secondary. This isn't a Germaine Greer type rant :)rolleyes: ), this is fact.

There is only so much you can do for your father, again from personal experience I know that it can reach a point where troubled people like him simply drag everyone else down with him. Of course you continue trying to help, but I can completely understand why you want to free your mother from a situation where her life is simply being destroyed by someone who has given up.

It must be her decision whether or not she leaves him, but she must also be supported - and not to be made feel guilty - if she decides she has had enough. She has one life, she must be encouraged to live it, and not to be made felt her duty is to prop up a husband who has given up.

I might be wrong but I would guess that the majority of people (including some on this board) who offer advice suggest that she shouldn't leave him, that she's somehow morally obliged to continue supporting him, in practical and emotional terms. She's not. I'd like to think marriage/partnership is about give and take, it sounds like your mother is doing all the giving, in every way.

So if, in your heart, you believe her only hope is to leave him then talk to her about it, see how she feels. Allow her to make the decision, but if she hints that she wants to leave him but feels she shouldn't, then encourage her to make the break.

Your father clearly needs help, but, ultimately, only he can seek and accept it. His family can make all the appointments in the world for him, but you can't drag him there. He deserves sympathy, depression of that depth is a living hell, but in these situations I have as much sympathy for the family of the sufferer as I do the sufferer, they are victims too.

So, do what you think is right, don't make decisions for your mother, but encourage her to think about herself and her own future. She is incredibly fortunate to have a son like you who cares for her so much.

I wish you all the very best.
 
Depression is an illness, and your dad is entitled to financial assistance (I believe it is €165 per week incapacity benefit and hopefully he will have enough PRSI).

I have some experience of this, as my partner suffers from depression. Your dad will genuinely be unable to work. He will also probably be unable to cope with form filling etc, so you will have to do this for him.

Go talk to the Social Security people on his behalf, having talked to his GP first. Then fill in the forms, get him and his GP to file them and send them in. In my experience the social security staff are very helpful and sympathetic. This will at least remove the immediate financial pressure.

If you can have your dad assessed by a psychiatrist (through your GP) and accessing outpatient services this would be good. They go group meetings, art therapy etc and it really helps to get out of the house and talk to people who are in the same boat.

The thing is, someone with depression literally loses the will to live, and any motivation goes out of the window. So you or your mum may have to do the legwork and accompany him to appointments etc. It is no use hoping he will be able to do these things himself when he is so low. He won't, until he starts to feel better.

take care,
Diziet
 
Listen thanks for the help but as I have said I dont want advice on what to do with my dad.


We have sat down as a family 20/30 times trying to help him. We have got our GP to call to the house 6 times in 4 months. We have had a nurse here 3 times in 6 months. He will not do anything about it.
 
Have you thought about how you are going to go about selling the house with you Dad in bed all the time. People viewing etc.
I know you have given up on him but please dont - I would get another doctor's opinion and hopefully get him some help and then take it from there because I am sure your Dad has some rights (no matter how bad he has being to you Mum) as to what happens to his home.
 
Megan said:
I am sure your Dad has some rights (no matter how bad he has being to you Mum) as to what happens to his home.
Click to expand...
Yes. Assuming that the couple are married then the would normally prevent the family home from being sold without the express consent of both spouses.
 
My Dad has agreed to sell the house. One thing he does recognise is that the situation is desperate so no problem selling the house 50/50. His problem is he cannot do anything. We have been to different doctors. I just dont know what to do????????
 
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