Heating Systems for new build

Hi Rebellad,
It was EM themselves who advised me of the new `monobloc` system. As far as I can remember they have the system now in stock & are just conducting their own efficiency tests. I would def go back to them.
Do you mind me asking have you spoken to many people with the system ?
 
Thanks kemosabe, I will give them a call later on. I was speaking to 3 people who have it in, 2 were very happy after initial teething problems and the other was still a bit sceptical about it.
 
Grand,
I have spoken to three people with the system (1 with rads), & 1 person with a similar system. All are very happy with the systems & would put them in again if they were doing it again.
 
Hi

I am in the middle of a 3500 sqft new build and it's getting close to deciding what heating system to use. I am looking at under floor heating on the 2 floors with a hrv system and a air to water heat pump. My head is melting with every company giving out about the next. Can anyone give me some solid feedback on the best company to use. any info greatly appreciated.
 
Hi Garboaks,
Im not in a position to recommend anyone as you are ahead of me in the build. I have not started yet & so the company I have been dealing with has only assisted me with information & quotes. Sorry. What heat pumps have you looked at ?
 
Hey kemosabe,

the quotes I am getting are nearly all Daikin except 1 which is for Master therm. I have never heard of master therm.
 
So far they range from 44k down to 24k for the full system- UFH,HRV,Air Source pump. The problem I am having is that four companies are quoting me for identical system, same make and model for everything yet there is 20k between dearest and cheapest. Have been told by the competition that some of the smaller companies (the cheapest prices) might not be around in another couple of months.
 
Dear God,
It would seem to me that 44k is obscene money for that system. Check out Energy Master in Kerry. They are a fairly established company & their quote would be very competitive with what you have detailed above. I have no connection with this company at all but have done a bit of research on them, through this site & other avenues. Reports I have got have been positive. I cant see how there can be such a difference in the prices you have received. That is shocking !
 
I Know the figures are crazy. The big thing I find you dont get any kind of a guarantee its all just estimates. It feels like such a gamble.
 
We completed the build of a 3000 sq ft house last year and used a system supplied by energymaster- a CTC air-to-water system [EcoAir and EcoEl, 6kW rating]. We have UFH on the ground and first floor.

Here's my tuppence worth:

  • We only use electricity as an energy source and have 24/7 hot water and (after some period of getting used to the system) a very satisfactory ambient temperature in the ground/ first floor.
  • The average ESB bills since we moved in are approx €200 per month although this is typically €150-ish per month in the warmer months and €300-ish in the Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb months. Annual electrical costs for EVERYTHING should come in at approx €2500 (80 cents per square foot)
  • I'd strongly recommend ensuring that you insulate to the 'nth degree'- I can't remember the depth of insulation we put in the floors but it was more than the minimum (possibly 250mm?). We used a well-regarded brand by Kingspan with a foil backing.
  • It's very important to use either concrete or equivalent on the upper floor. Anything else is less effective at distributing the heat. On the first floor, we used EasyScreed from Jerry Beade and are happy with the results.
  • Floor material- if wood, make sure that you glue (don't use nails!)it directly to the concrete/ screed and use the 'right glue' (expensive- a tub cost approx €130 at the time). Putting a wooden floor on battens will result in an air gap between the warmed concrete and the wood- this will make it very difficult/ inefficient to heat the wood.
  • If I was doing it again, I'd probably put in solar panels on the roof (I've no clear understanding of the lifespan or efficiency of the various systems) and would almost certainly put in a HRV system- our budget didn't extend to that at the time. If you didn't want to actually install solar panels now but would like the option of doing so later, you could check out the requirements for installing piping from the roof to the hot water tank/ heat pump. Then, later, it would be a very neat job to install solar panels and connect same to the piping.
Our system, including the extra cost for insulation and screed (these elements came to approx €5000) came to approx €27000 net of a grant which was ballpark €4000.

A word of caution- we had difficulties with Energymaster primarily in relation to the work they undertook outside of the house (the work they did inside the house was exemplary). Originally we wanted a borehole based geothermal system (which proved impossible for geological reasons) and they proposed a 'compact ground based' geothermal system (basically a compact array of pipes which look like oversized towel warmers and which are buried approx 6-8 feet under the surface). However, they didn't measure/investigate the site adequately (apart from a cursory initial visit/ sales call) and when it came to the installation of the array there wasn't sufficient space/ soil quality was bad and the trenches kept collapsing. This set our build back quite a bit while an alternative solution was devised. We almost lost the grant due to their delaying and ultimately had to ask my builder to "have words with them".

In the end , however, we are happy with the system
 
Very Interesting DeadlyDuck,
Can I ask, Do you have stats in every room or just in every room upstairs with down stairs counted as one Zone ? Do you have the night rate metre ? If so, What way do you operate your system ? For Example how many hours is the heat pump on each day & at what times etc ?
Thanks
 
Yes- we have stats in all rooms both upstairs and downstairs. They are each set for 19 degrees but the heatpump overrides that to 18.5 degrees at present. We find that the ambient temperature is very agreeable at this setting.

We have only just installed the night rate metre (1 week ago)- we originally wanted it and were told by our electrician that it was 'too late'..... untrue.

With the nightrate, we block the compressor during the day (a setting on the heatpump allows this) and allow it to operate during the nightrate hours. This means that our water is heated during the nighttime only. If required, we can use the electric element to heat during the day but at present we aren't doing that as the average temperature to date is approx 45-50 degrees. If we needed a lot of watrer for showers/baths/washing machine etc we can switch the heating element on as required.

On average, the compressor is operating for anything between under 2 hours a day (relatively rare) to up to 9 hours (also relatively rare). I'd guess an average of 4 hours-5 hours per day is about right. Since the switch to nightrate, I've been tweaking the settings so it hasn't really been bedded down yet.
 
Thanks For the reply,
So just to make sure, am I right in thinking you are going to have the heat pump operating during day time hours for space heat & then at night time for hot water ?
 
The circulation pump (which pumps the water through the UFH) operates as required without restriction.

We've blocked the compressor (basically the outside fan unit) during the daytime hours in order to save using expensive day-rate electricity.

Our heating is based on the hot water running through the UFH pipes. therefore, once the water is hot enough from the night time heating, I don't need to use the compressor during the day. (It's the compressor that's expensive to run- the heat pump itself is cheap, I think)
I noticed yesterday, which was cold down here, that I needed to use the compressor during the day to heat the water as the temperature of the water had dropped significantly- this would have an impact on running costs but it's too early to say whether it's a problem or not. The house wan't 'cold' per se but I wanted to have warmer water in the taps.
 
So do you heat your house at night time & use the floors as a type of storage heaters thus keeping the house warm through the next day ? Is that not uncomfortable at night time.
 
Not uncomfortable - remember that the stats control room temperature so we
regulate the bedroom temperature using those.
We basically heat a volume of water at night which is then used to
supply the heat to the rest of the house by day.
Stats help to `regulate` the valves which open\close to let more\less
water flow through.
 
I think someone needs to make the point that you don't need a hi-tech heating system costing over €20k and costing €1500 a year at present prices. It seems people spec their houses by selecting a massively oversized heating system. Do you really need 3000 square foot, wouldn't you be better build 2,500 square feet but build it to an appropriate standard.

A properly designed and built house will need a tiny heating system. Electric underfloor in wet rooms and kitchen would be more than sufficient.

Good solar orientation and clever use of daylight along with continuous insulation with no cold bridges and Heat recovery Ventilation with a small post heater is the only option. Building anything else doesn't make sense especially with projected energy increases of 7% per annum.

Instead of getting an Engineer or Surveyor supplied stock house plans, get your building designed to suit your site and your lifestyle and one that is future proofed. I despair when I see the standard of design and construction that people are prepared to accept in this country. We pay above the odds for concrete buildings with plastic insulation or shoddy timber inner leaf's, the design is focused on providing an impressive elevation to the road but doesn't address the path of the sun or the views.
Then we install a huge heating system which goes cold after 2 hours. For 5%-8% extra you can have a Passive house, with light, comfort, natural materials and a responsive heating system for when you need it. A Passive house with no heating will maintain 16 degrees in winter in Ireland.
 
Just wondering how any of you guys got on with your daikin altherma systems?

I am looking at such a system at the moment. I have been quoted for the 2 piece unit (indoor & outdoor) and the monobloc unit - which is slightly cheaper.

Has anyone here used the monobloc unit?

Has either unit got any particular advantages over the other?
 
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