Gross missconduct

newtothis

Frequent Poster
Messages
542
The scam was a customer paying for an item in cash but the shop assistant put into the till that it was a voucher. Then stole the cash.

- why would the other staff know your ID
- very odd nobody was checking the tills added up every day if they weren't counting vouchers
- the thief is still there
- did anyone new join the staff nine months ago
- which member of staff suddenly seemed to have more spending money
That may well be the case and of passing interest, but it's of no particular relevance to the OP. It’s irrelevant to them what may or may not have been going onm who was involved or how they operated. What they’re concerned about is they’ve been dismissed, and what is relevant to that is whether the dismissal was “fair” or not. That is, it is the disciplinary process and procedures that led up to that action being taken that is relevant; the original actions or lack of actions that led to it that is not important. Dismissing someone from their livelihood when an employer cannot show that a fair process was used is (rightly) viewed as a very serious matter by the WRC. A fair process would include sharing all the evidence the employer had and providing an opportunity to the employee to state their case adequately prior to any action being taken.
 

Leo

Moderator
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9,823
Dismissing someone from their livelihood when an employer cannot show that a fair process was used is (rightly) viewed as a very serious matter by the WRC.
Exactly, this recent case and others like it should serve notice to employers how important it is to have well defined & documented disciplinary procedures in place and follow them through to the letter in such cases.
 

cremeegg

Frequent Poster
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2,740
You must have financial resources to fight the allegations against you. If you haven't resources, you are facing an uphill battle.
I don't think that there are any resources required to take a case for unfair dismissal.


At this moment your employer holds all the aces .
Hardly, the employer has made their decision in this matter and acted on that. They have no cards to play at this stage. The OP can take a case or not as s/he wishes.

If the OP does take a case the onus will be on the employer to show that they acted fairly. I have only slight knowledge of these things, but I suspect a dismissal for gross misconduct would require a high burden of proof from the employer
 

Tintagel

Frequent Poster
Messages
359
Have you been on holiday during the last nine months. Ask to see if any vouchers were used during that time.
However it is always possible that the real thief only stole while you were about in order to put the blame on you.
What about your day off work?
Start writing everything down while it is still fresh in your mind.
 

newtothis

Frequent Poster
Messages
542
Have you been on holiday during the last nine months. Ask to see if any vouchers were used during that time.
However it is always possible that the real thief only stole while you were about in order to put the blame on you.
What about your day off work?
It's not down to the OP to prove her innocence; it’s up to her employer to (a) prove her guilt and, more importantly (b) do so as part of a fair and transparent process. In fact, her guilt isn’t even that important (I'm not suggesting for a moment she is guilty of anything), as the recent Tesco case highlighted by someone here showed. In that case, there was no dispute the property was taken without payment (theft by another name); it was all about the process that led the dismissal.
Start writing everything down while it is still fresh in your mind.
This is good advice.
 
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MangoJoe

Frequent Poster
Messages
101
You say that everyone in the Store knows your ID number - Assuming you didn't decide to bring about this eventuality yourself personally then why is this?

Please clarify why and how this information became commonly known across the shop.

Are staff members asked to share/swap/use these IDs interchangeably with Managements approval/direction/knowledge?

- If this ID number was to be, for example, printed on a sheet of paper or otherwise made available on a computer system or similar that everyone has access to then I'd be going straight for these peoples throats for not safeguarding this implement they've subsequently chosen to use as a weapon against you.

If the thief had used the Owner/Managers Till ID in this manner would they have rang the Gardaí and demanded a prosecution upon themselves?

I'd be very happy to see the WRC award heavily against the Kangaroos who ran this court.

Sorry for the stress and worry brought upon you - Hope you're ok.
 

Purple

Frequent Poster
Messages
8,863
Hardly, the employer has made their decision in this matter and acted on that. They have no cards to play at this stage. The OP can take a case or not as s/he wishes.

If the OP does take a case the onus will be on the employer to show that they acted fairly. I have only slight knowledge of these things, but I suspect a dismissal for gross misconduct would require a high burden of proof from the employer
I find it remarkable that any business would sack someone for the theft of €21,000 and not involve the Gardai.

I also find it remarkable that the OP was not given all of the evidence and an opportunity to respond.


From what’s been posted here the OP is in a very strong position to win any case taken through the WRC.

I suggest the OP reads the WRC's Code of Practice on Grievance and Disciplinary Procedures
 

Lizzieb

New Member
Messages
7
I have went through all stages of appeal within the companies policy and procedures. My ID was on a number of documents available to the whole team,in my appeal I showed that I wasn’t within the till area for transactions they Claimed this happened, they said that they can’t prove it, i was in a different part of the city and even a different country I can prove this. They said they didn’t feel the full evidence was needed as they had enough to prove a pattern. They also claim I should have pointed my concerns out in my 30day review which I never had ? The claim to use rota’s then when I quried this they said they used time sheets to place where I was rota’s state the working time timesheets don’t they also didn’t match. Then some ‘rota’s’ went missing ? They only investigated one line of enquiry
 
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DeeKie

Frequent Poster
Messages
340
I have went through all stages of appeal within the companies policy and procedures. My ID was on a number of documents available to the whole team,in my appeal I showed that I wasn’t within the till area for over 150 of the 300 transactions they Claimed this happened, they said that they can’t prove it, i was in a different part of the city and even a different country I can prove this. They said they didn’t feel the full evidence was needed as they had enough to prove a pattern. They also claim I should have pointed my concerns out in my 30day review which I never had ? The claim to use rota’s then when I quried this they said they used time sheets to place where I was rota’s state the working time timesheets don’t they also didn’t match. Then some ‘rota’s’ went missing ? They only investigated one line of enquiry
Oh no. Have they issued you with a letter with the appeal decision? Ask for it in writing if not, then find a solicitor who knows employment law.
 

Lizzieb

New Member
Messages
7
They have issued a letter with the out come the up hold their original decision however there reasoning doesn’t add up seeing a lawyer on Wednesday
 

RETIRED2017

Frequent Poster
Messages
772
They have issued a letter with the out come the up hold their original decision however there reasoning doesn’t add up seeing a lawyer on Wednesday
Hope you are seeing a solicitor/firm who specialises in employment law,
I think it would be a good idea to remove any mention of 300/150 transactions This is an open forum if the information you have provided is correct it may be possible to make a link to an actual miss conduct case,
 
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