Gross missconduct

Discussion in 'Redundancy, unemployment & jobseekers entitlements' started by Lizzieb, 2 Jan 2019.

  1. Lizzieb

    Lizzieb New Member

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    5
    Hi
    I have just been dismissed for gross misconduct, my employer says that over 300 transactions have been processing as vouchers when it was actually cash and they believe that it was me as it was my number. However i believe it was someone using my number, they have records, the say rotas put me there. How ever in the investigation they only looked into some of the transactions and with held 1/3 of them. They allege this was going on for 9 months, the vouchers that were processed never arrived in head office. I am going to appeal it, as they failed to provide me with all the evidence and the till records so i can defend myself. Can anyone offer any advice ?
     
  2. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    I'm assuming you're working in the retail trade but after that it's difficult to understand the issue. Are you saying people who paid cash at the till were entered as if the bill was paid in vouchers and the money or vouchers have gone awol, or was cash paid and a voucher written in lieu but the cash went missing?
     
  3. cmalone

    cmalone Frequent Poster

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    Sorry to hear about this serious issue in your life ... however, unclear context as to exactly what’s going on. Can you provide more detail of background (without revealing identify of employer etc ). What is main area of work? What are ‘vouchers’ ordinarily processed? Could you have made any errors in processing ?
     
  4. Lizzieb

    Lizzieb New Member

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    Its in retail store, the vouchers are paper gift vouchers. Basically on the till.you can select paper vouchers as a tender, the claim that cash from customers were getting rung through the till as paper vouchers and the actual cash was being stolen. I believe someone did this using my ID number
     
  5. Leper

    Leper Frequent Poster

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    What has happened to Lizzie is not unusual in the retail business. You need to talk to your union. Your union might even pay your legal fees and you could get an exit package that you only dreamed of.

    There are many unthinkables on Lizzie's post e.g. did management just want to dismiss Lizzie and used this illegal method to achieve their aims? Is there another member of staff/management on the take?

    The consequences of the treatment meted out to Lizzie are far reaching. For a start your honesty is in question and talk is cheap. You might never work in retail again and bring unfair summaries of your alleged performance to a new employer. I am beating about the bush, but the bottom line is Lizzie's good/honest reputation is at stake.

    Talk to your union and fast.
     
  6. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    As I suspected but am not putting blame on anyone. How much money is involved and how many people apart from the supervisor knew your ID? Would someone not have to enter your ID every time they transacted a sale and then go back to their own ID and continue? This would be spotted a mile off in my opinion, by security, cctv, by management and by customers too, many of whom work in retail and know how these systems work.
     
  7. Lizzieb

    Lizzieb New Member

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    Everyone in store knows my number, it has been 9 months since this started. They failed to give me all the evidence, they never looked into any other staff member. There is no cctv in store. They havent looked at any other avenues, this is 21k. We dont have a union as i suspect other staff i could ask them to be a witness
     
  8. losttheplot

    losttheplot Frequent Poster

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    For a theft of 21k, I'd expect the Gardai to be involved. If they haven't contacted the Gardai, I'd be suspicious they're just making it up.
     
  9. Lizzieb

    Lizzieb New Member

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    Last edited: 3 Jan 2019
    They haven't contacted the gardai they threatened to do so but havent, the fact that they wont show me over 100 of the transactions is also suspicious to. I think they thought it was me and i would own u, but as i didnt do it i couldnt own up, the have no real prove if they do they havent shown me. For many of the transactions i believe i was on lunch or off the shop floor but they never looked into that
     
    Last edited: 3 Jan 2019
  10. newtothis

    newtothis Frequent Poster

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    Regardless of the details, it sounds like they have not followed any sort of due or fair process. They are in deep trouble if this is the case. Even if you are not a member you could try contacting a union relevent to your business to see of they can help. Either that or contact a HR specialist company to advise. Either way, if you haven't already done so, you should write down in as much detail as you can the timeline of events that brought you to be dismissed as soon as you can, and revise it as and when you recall further detail.
     
  11. NoRegretsCoyote

    NoRegretsCoyote Registered User

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    If they have not followed due process then you probably have a case for the WRC.

    The WRC does not really care as to whether the employee was right or wrong in their actions. It's all about whether management had procedures, and followed them, in dismissing the staff member.
     
  12. Feemar5

    Feemar5 Frequent Poster

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    When you balanced your till did you not have to record so much in cash and so much in vouchers to match the total take. Somebody should have contacted you about the discrepancy and give you a chance to explain. There should be a company policy on disciplinary action outlining verbal warnings etc., You should put your concerns in writing to the management and let them know that you intend to take this matter up with the WRC .
     
  13. newtothis

    newtothis Frequent Poster

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    I would not do this unless and until advised to do so my someone expert who has been briefed on the details of your case as it seems to serve little purpose and other than to warn them, giving them the opportunity to rewrite history and try and recover their position before they've been challanged on it.
     
    DeeKie likes this.
  14. DeeKie

    DeeKie Frequent Poster

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    How awful to be wrongfully accused. Spend the time writing out what happened to you in terms of process. See if you can pick holes in what was given to you. Then go to an employment law expert/ solicitor/ union without delay. For now, with management, write to them with a very short note to say that you reject completely the dismissal and the reason for it, and you reserve your rights.
     
    newtothis likes this.
  15. Leper

    Leper Frequent Poster

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    We don't know if you failed to join a union or if your employer would not recognize your union to represent you. Lots of good advice is being given here, please heed it. Your work colleagues probably know that you were suspended/sacked. It's not unthinkable they believe you are in the wrong. If you do nothing on your own behalf, it's tantamount to guilt in the eyes of many. Your reputation has been tarnished greater than you think and there may be repercussions for your future. The gardaí become involved, there is a court case, you're found guilty or not guilty, newspapers print news and anything of human interest stories (like yours) sell papers.

    You must have financial resources to fight the allegations against you. If you haven't resources, you are facing an uphill battle. Word-of-mouth is a dangerous weapon when used against you. At this moment your employer holds all the aces and you are shuffling deuces and trays. Look at it this way:- Would you employ somebody who robbed his employer? Through your inaction and naivité, this is where you stand.

    In your favour it's widely known that passwords are usually commonly known by other work colleagues. In the absence of cctv your case is more difficult to assess. We have your word. Your employer will be well aware of what must be done and can offset his/her legal fees against profits.

    Anybody looking in on this thread might like to consider their vulnerability if they are not members of a trade union.
     
  16. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Frequent Poster

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    Can you set out the sequence of events prior to your dismissal, e.g., when and how were you first notified that you were under investigation, were you suspended first and if so was this with or without pay.

    Is it common practice that individual employee’s ID numbers are known to others?
     
  17. Lizzieb

    Lizzieb New Member

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    When we balance the till it only looks for cash and credit cards
     
  18. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    The scam was a customer paying for an item in cash but the shop assistant put into the till that it was a voucher. Then stole the cash.

    - why would the other staff know your ID
    - very odd nobody was checking the tills added up every day if they weren't counting vouchers
    - the thief is still there
    - did anyone new join the staff nine months ago
    - which member of staff suddenly seemed to have more spending money
     
    MugsGame likes this.
  19. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    Lizzie,
    At this stage you've been given plenty of advice on what to do and not to do, I would suggest you don't give any more info here as you just might be identified. You've enough to work on from here now but come back and tell us what happened. Just my opinion and good luck.
     
  20. Sunny

    Sunny Frequent Poster

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    There is no case for dismissal. If everyone knows your ID and you know everyone elses work ID, then that is the work practice that matters. It would be different if it was in the rules and was strictly enforced that people should not share Till ID's. As it is, it seems like you all share ID's on a day to day basis so can't be used against you.

    You should record everything in writing. You should request the reasons for your dismissal in writing from your employer if they haven't already provided it. They must provide this within 14 days. I presume you have more than 12 months service so the Unfair Dismissal Legislation applies to you. You should lodge an appeal to the WRC. This must be done within 6 months of the date of your dismissal.

    Any business that loses 21k in this manner should be sacking the management.......
     
    Purple likes this.