Failed by banks, ombudsman, regulator and Central bank

TLO

Frequent Poster
Messages
234

SaySomething

Frequent Poster
Messages
554
Ask @notabene as she can explain it better than I. However, without 'mens rea' a specific, provable criminal intent, they won't open a case. It's very easy to suggest that customers go to the Gardaí or to court. The reality however is far different, the cost of going to court is prohibitive for the vast majority of affected customers. Nevermind the fact that most cases would be adjourned pending the outcome of the tracker examination. Going to the Gardaí and the ODCE is ineffective also. We are caught every which way here.
 

odyssey06

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,604
They should make Lane the next Garda Commissioner, performance was so inept and showed such disdain for responsibilities to citizens it reminded me of Callinan's "disgusting" one.
 

notabene

Frequent Poster
Messages
335
You need to prove mens rea - that they intended to defraud customers & actus reus - that they actually did defraud customers to be successful in a criminal prosecution

now you can look at evidence there at present and say yes to both but the problem is that you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in court which is a very high bar - You would have to prove that there was no other reasonable explanation why it could have happened. And while we might not be happy with that as an affected customer, at the moment there isn't enough evidence to support that. It is a huge cost & use of resources and they wont' do that if they don't have a reasonable chance of winning the case. It would make a mockery of it and also they can't go back for a second go if the first doesn't work. So for all of those reasons until better evidence were to come to light there really isn't much hope of a prosecution.

In regards to my own case, I spoke with both the Gardai in terms of fraud and the ODCE regarding fradulent trading under the Companies Acts and it really wasn't feasible with the evidence presented at present
 

Wonder

Registered User
Messages
37
I think what Mr lane and central bank are doing with kbc and bank of Ireland is right They the 'central bank' can now go into these banks and get the evidence they need to prove that they committed fraud as we all know they did. From dealing with kbc we all know they can't be trusted missing documents not been offered the rates we should have been offered change of wording on contracts when trying to get interested only they did it all and it will now be proved by the central bank.
 

Foxy007

Registered User
Messages
21
Hey new to the forum guys,
Been reading all this with interest as back in 2014 I got a letter from bank suddenly offering us a tracker ....We were in dire straits at the time. I had just lost my job, we were in a rental due to pyrite and I was losing the will to live from sheer stress. There were also other horrendous issue affecting us but money and the house are the relevant points here. The letter got me so annoyed. Rang the bank of course and practically snapped the tracker offer up. Then I smelt a rat. Several calls and letters later I got an answer as to why we were offered the tracker out of the blue ...... I had all day every day to deal with pushback and I am well able for the blather that people safely at the other end of a phone try to give you, when you ask a direct question that they don't want to answer. I got a copy of our offer letter and our actual contract. The simple truth was we were due a tracker all along but were never given it. In the initial mortgage meetings I asked at least 3 times about a tracker and was bluntly told we were not entitled to one. Contract clearly stated otherwise. I asked for the money back and got what the bank were willing to give at the time... I also was given to understand that ours was a one off but clearly not. No apology for the 'mistake", the pain and the crazy we went through for 8 or 9 years ..... the stress and worry. Horrified that this has caused people to lose their homes ... we were close to losing ours too. I hope the banks in question are forced to give these people new homes and enough compensation to make life bearable again. I was in fact, questioned as to why I might want to take 10% of this payment (and very unsure how they arrived at the sum) in cash, as if I was crazy not to want it all back in the mortgage account. Clearly whoever I was taking to didn't twig we were in the middle of a recession and this was intact my money, so my decision.

There is a huge difference that I truly hope is called out here. People deserve to get their over payment back but also be compensated for years of overpaying during a recession where that money would have made a difference.
 

tigger45

Registered User
Messages
15
We will need to organise and start to speak out. One of their tools against us is our slience and our unwillingness to 'make a scene'.
they are bullies in this and bullies thrive on the silence and the shame of victims.
We did nothing wrong.
It is time for us all to have a good long think about what we are prepared to share and how and start a process.
Where do we go for help? PK can only help so many people but where do we even go for info on how to proceed?
Where is the checklist of what do and how to do it?
Where is the list of people who can represent you and how?
How do you go about contacting your TD or minister?
 

tigger45

Registered User
Messages
15
To be clear I wasnt asking, I was putting a list of things that would be useful for people in this position to have access to
 

Laramie

Frequent Poster
Messages
384
The toxic and incompetent management syndrome is rife in this country. This includes regulators and politicians. Fat cats grabbing from the greasy till and making the rest of us pay for it.
 

Banking17

Frequent Poster
Messages
107
john.mcguinness@oireachtas.ie
michael.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie
rose.conwaywalsh@oireachtas.ie
pearse.doherty@oireachtas.ie

etc etc.

contact Notabene and SaySomething re contacting journalists
Contact Padraic Kissane

Ring the newspapers they will put you in contact with the journalists

Go into your local td office

Everyone thinks everyone else will do it! Thats the Irish way!
Useful I think to go Political particularly with all Government TDs and Ministers' in your constituency before Banks meet Minister for Finance next week
 

Lightening

Frequent Poster
Messages
319
agree Banking17! Watched 6 o'clock RTE news!

Am thinking (and hoping) for KBC and BOI this might all backfire
:D
What goes around comes around!
 

TheBigShort

Frequent Poster
Messages
2,789
How many broken families, how many emigrants, how many suicides is enough.
It doesn't matter, they dont
count.

We are part of a centralised command banking economy. Democracy is window dressing, capitalism is sold out on the notion of 'too big to fail'.
Despite the bailouts, the amounts required which were initially understated by the banks, from the top of government, through the media, we were told 'we all went a bit mad!' 'We all partied!!".
And the subservient cheerleaders stood up for them. Apparently someone who took a once in a lifetime hefty mortgage was to be equally culpable for their irresponsible borrowing as the bank who lent thousands of mortgages every week.

Liars.

That was then, this is now. Where are the cheerleaders for the banks now? The ones that propagate the fraudulent notion that every borrower is equally culpable for any transactions they enter into with the banks?
Where are those cheerleaders now?

It's fraud. On a massive scale - once again.
People are dead, families destroyed, businesses ruined.
 

delsalmon

Registered User
Messages
26
Have to say I've been furious over the past week or so.
I've emailed every member of the Dail over the past couple of days with my story, and how the CB stats that include myself as being gone through redress and compensated are a farce, especially the 3.25% debacle.
I was pleasantly surprised with the dozen or so responses I got.
 
Last edited:

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
641
Always beware of reading too much in newspaper reports. Whilst Charlie Weston has been good on reporting, the indo always want the sensationalist hysterical headline that usually bears no resemblance to the truth.

The CB has clearly stated that it will pursue all banks to the maximum of its powers, but there may be some customers that will still be disappointed and they will still have the opportunity to go to ombudsman / courts and the six year rule won't apply.

If anything it means that even after the end of the process, there will still be options for people that were not previously available due to time lapse.

But indo turns this upside down the way only the indo can and creates a hysterical headline. Its a long time since I believed any indo headline due to this policy of sensationalism.

What I see as one of the most positive aspects of current interest is that both Leo Varadkar and Pascal Donohue are of a age where they understand the issues from a first hand position whereas the previous holders of office, a mortgage was a distant memory.
 
Top