EU and Japan to sign historic trade deal

Surely the fact that they are too cute to cut off their noses to spite their faces is a good thing?? Everyone will suffer.

The EU mandarins and political hangers-on won't suffer. They'll let everyone else roast though.


That doesn't mean that the EU should automatically choose the least painful option of just letting the UK pick what parts of the single market they want without any of the obligations
The UK haven't even asked for that. All they want is a negotiated process.

There will be an impact but it won't lead to a Great Depression.
If all this leads to even a minor economic depression, there will be hell to pay across Europe.

In many ways, it has to be painful so other countries don't get the same idea. Might not be right but it is understandable.

It's only understandable in the context of a Union that has lost all vestiges of popular accountability. The idea that the EU should be some sort of prison offends both common decency and common sense. Any political power that needs enforcement by intimidation and threats is but transitory and will recede as the tides recede. The USSR is an example of that.

They can't even get a negotiating position agreed between themselves, never mind involving the EU.

Show me a country on the planet where there is actual political unanimity on any major issue. The UK's problem isn't unanimity, it's the dreadful state of leadership displayed by the PM. Mrs Thatcher would have had this sorted in a wet week.
 
The UK's problem isn't unanimity, it's the dreadful state of leadership displayed by the PM. Mrs Thatcher would have had this sorted in a wet week.

I respectfully disagree with this view. I think TM is simply facing into the real politik of leaving the EU.
If not, its time Davis, Johnson, Rees-Mogg et al stood up to be counted - whats holding them up? As far as I know all thats needed is 48 'letters' to launch leadership bid.
I suspect the delay is that they cant even agree amongst themselves who should be leader!
 
I think TM is simply facing into the real politik of leaving the EU.

Her actions in running her Brexit negotiation plan by Angela Merkel before disclosing it to her own colleagues in Chequers was highly questionable. This was only one of a whole raft of poor decisions, all smacking of incompetence leadership. The "terrible two" advisors debacle and calling an election only to alienate her own base by running with a milk-and-water soft-left campaign were but two examples.

Rees-Mogg is a backbencher who has never explicitly expressed any leadership ambitions. Davis is 70 this year and, having lost to Cameron in 2005, is hardly likely to bother at this stage. Johnson will undoubtedly strike at some point, but probably will let May destroy what's left of her authority first.
 
Her actions in running her Brexit negotiation plan by Angela Merkel before disclosing it to her own colleagues in Chequers was highly questionable.

What hard evidence to you actually have to support that statement????
 
What you do mean hard evidence? It's a statement of fact.

Which she denies

[broken link removed]



I'm not suggesting she is doing a good job. I'm suggesting that if some of her former cabinet ministers think she is doing such a bad job, isn't it time they stood up to be counted?
 
Davis is 70 this year

So what? Clearly he considered able enough to hold one of the most important briefs of any cabinet Minister? Why not the PM brief?

and, having lost to Cameron in 2005, is hardly likely to bother at this stage

Why not? He wont be competing against Cameron this time.

Johnson will undoubtedly strike at some point, but probably will let May destroy what's left of her authority first.

In the meantime the Brexit deadline is looming. Not really a time to wait in the long grass, imo.
 
So what? Clearly he considered able enough to hold one of the most important briefs of any cabinet Minister? Why not the PM brief?



Why not? He wont be competing against Cameron this time.
My opinion, that's all. You're free to differ.
In the meantime the Brexit deadline is looming. Not really a time to wait in the long grass, imo.
Your opinion, that's all. I'm free to differ.
 
My opinion, that's all. You're free to differ.

Absolutely, of course.

Well she would, wouldn't she?

Of course she would, especially if it s true?
Which means between her views and the reported views of the newspapers, there is a contradiction (The Spectator is hardline pro-Brexit, diminishing Mays authority may be in their interests?).
I'm not saying she didn't show her whitepaper to Merkel first, just pointing out that in the midst of contrary views and reports its hard to know what is actually a statement of fact or not.
 
(The Spectator is hardline pro-Brexit, diminishing Mays authority may be in their interests?)..

Hardline? No. Their editorial support for a Leave vote back in June 2016 was very much of a "on the one hand but on the other..." nature. They have both pro- and anti-Brexit columnists. Charles Moore is indeed one of the former, but is also one of Britain's most highly respected political commentators. His article which I linked above is more than credible.
 

My bad so.
 
His article which I linked above is more than credible.

Really? The actual quote from the article is 'At Chequers, I hear, one of her responses to suggested changes in her blueprint was to say, ‘No, that’s not possible, because I’ve already cleared it [the existing text] with Mrs Merkel.’

So your statement of fact is based on a journalist saying 'I hear'. No mention of corroborated sources. Sounds more like pub talk. Neither Johnson or Davies have come out with this claim (as far as I know) which is very damaging so I don't know how you can call it a statement of fact because the story appears in article.
 
Moore's record on such matters is very, very good. His Telegraph and Spectator columns and his biography of Margaret Thatcher consistently bear that out.
 
You would have confirmation from one of the participants that it actually happened....



So it is not a fact then, it is an unsupported opinion at best.
Whatever you like. I couldn't care less to be honest. But again, Moore's record on this is very good, as is The Spectator's.
 
https://www.rte.ie

Rees-Mogg predicting a hard Brexit now. I would have to agree, cant see anything else but a hard Brexit at this stage.
So what happens next March?

If I understand things correctly, importers and exporters with the UK will be subject to WTO rules (whatever they may entail?). I presume it means that the cost of goods and services will rise between EU and UK.
So if I was an importer of UK goods, wouldn't it be in my interest to bring forward orders, where practicable, under single market/customs union rules, as the cost will be cheaper?
If so, I would imagine that the initial impact of Brexit will boost UK and EU economies pre-leaving day. The negative impact of Brexit wont occur until sometime after this as price rises impact and traders look for alternative markets in which to source produce.
Id imagine Ireland, with access to the single market etc will be better placed to do this than the UK as it searches high and low for new trade partners across the globe.
Notwithstanding the fact that the EU will be competing with the UK in those very same markets too - Japan for instance.
Japan may cut a deal with the UK for Whale-spearing/fox hunting holidays which the EU wont do, but when it comes to car manufacturing, electronic goods, its hard to see how the UK can negotiate better terms with Japan than what the EU can negotiate?

The UK of course wants to 'take back its waters', denying Irish fishing vessels their livilihood. Thats ok, but if the EU takes back its skies, well thats a threat!
Of course beyond the political bluster, reality always dawns. 40% of fishermen on UK fishing vessels are immigrants. So presumably after 'taking control of borders', a new visa scheme to allow immigrant fishermen will emerge?
The UK catches and sells more fish than it actually eats. Fresh fish being a perishable good will need somewhere to go, quickly - Canada perhaps? Although I suspect that they have their own fish already? And anyway there isn't enough of them to compensate the EU market. So unless Johnny English is going to have fish for breakfast, lunch, dinner and a late night snack, there is going to be a lot of angry fishermen about.
Of course, they could come to some agreement with EU countries, very, very, similar, in fact exactly like the deal they have now already?
In fairness to BJ and his high flying mates in the city of London, financial services is a huge part of the UK economy, London being one of the financial capitals of the world. Many EU financial institutions have large bases there so best the EU dont mess with UK fish or the UK will mess with EU financial institutions - right?
On the other hand, what is it that they say about capital these days? Its very mobile isnt it? How does Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Paris...even Dublin suit?
Fish on the other hand are fish, also mobile but on their own terms, not ours.
 
On the question of fishing surely Leo varadker should be more worried about Irish waters being swamped with European fishing trawlers when the UK waters are denied to them. This is a practical issue which the Irish government haven't talked about , surely the quotas of European fish caught in Irish waters should be reduced . Irish waters will becoming like the grand banks off Newfoundland , fished out and desolate
 

I strongly recommend you read up on the existing EU fishery’s regulations and agreements that are in place before you drag this thread off-topic. This is not a Brexit thread.
 
I strongly recommend you read up on the existing EU fishery’s regulations and agreements that are in place before you drag this thread off-topic. This is not a Brexit thread.

No, other posters have also talked about brexit stuff here, its such a big thing that its implications are everywhere especially when talking about trade deals. Also by your logic you would have to be an expert on any topic to comment . Many people have commented on brexit on this and other threads over the last few years but none are experts on it. By your logic only EU bureacrats and british government officials could properly comment as they are the only ones that no about it in detail.