Does anyone actually use Bitcoin to pay for things?

Duke of Marmalade said:
There are fundamental contradictions here. BTC proponents argue that ultimately it will have value as a transactional currency. They admit that it certainly has no traction in that role at present. And with $20 a transaction it has no hope of getting traction. But, the argument goes, these high transaction fees are because of the current price and the current cost of puzzle solving.
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Not really. The current issue in terms of transaction fees is a relatively recent one. If they can bring 'lightening network' into the mix, then that will be a game changer. That won't come fast - as the BTC developers put the security and integrity of the network above all else. However, this is not a short term project.

In terms of volatility, personally - I don't know how that can be sorted out in the short term. However, it wouldn't be so much of an issue for small ticket items in real time IF transaction fees and time taken to confirm transactions (similarly, that has deteriorated whereas it was an advantage before) are sorted out. Perhaps, over time - if there was adoption for the day to day use for smaller items by more people, gradually greater uptake would smooth out volatility.


Nobody is suggesting for a second that Bitcoin is the finished article. Nobody is suggesting that it will end up being the cryptocurrency of choice (albeit that I would wager that there will not just be one single crypto 'winner' for all purposes). However, it does have potential.
 
PaddyBloggit said:
Bitcoin Investors may be banned from using funds to buy properties in the UK:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5265605/Bitcoin-investors-face-BANNED-using-gains.html
" .... one public sector worker who made £40,000 from investing in digital currencies was refused a mortgage as he was unable to prove where he got obtained the money."
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The Daily Mail, seriously!!! He was refused a mortgage because he was unable to show the source of his funds. It does not matter what the source of ones funds are, if you can't provide documentation the same thing will happen.
 
landlord said:
I use Bitcoin (indirectly) every day to pay for everything and anything. I have a Xapo card which is affiliated with VISA. So I can use this in shop that accepts Visa. On purchase, my bitcoin is automatically converted to euro for a very small fee.
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Unfortunately this card and many others like it have been cancelled.
 
I don’t think so but visa are unhappy with the association/partnership with WaveCrest due to a breach of visas regulations.
 
This story is a couple of days old now, but thought it was worth mentioning here....

KFC Canada's 'bitcoin bucket'

Some interesting observations came out of this "experiment" such as the transaction costs for small payments being prohibitive, and the time delay in processing the payments. A shame to read that both were issues, as both are fundamental to the success of bitcoin as a payment mechanism imho.

That said, it does raise the question about whether an alternative crypto with faster payment processing and cheaper transaction fees might be more suited to high volume, low value transactions than Bitcoin ?
 
MrEarl said:
That said, it does raise the question about whether an alternative crypto with faster payment processing and cheaper transaction fees might be more suited to high volume, low value transactions than Bitcoin ?
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I think that is the only way to go. To be successful as a means of payment, a crypto is going to have to be able to scale to the transaction volumes and times of the credit card processors, and at a similar or lower cost per transaction. Bitcoin is currently trending around 3 tps, with a theoretical maximum of 7 tps, Visa currently process ~2,000 tps, and have hit 47,000 tps in the past. Transaction fees of $25-30 at the moment also rule it out for smaller purchases, but do offer an advantage for higher transaction values over the traditional percentage fees of the card processors.

To gain mass appeal, there will need to be a tangible benefit to the consumer.
 
jman0war said:
Things are really looking good for 2018. Layer2 scaling solution coming online now : Lightning network.
Making instant payments for basically zero fees.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48uSd4eQfZs

Schnorr signatures next.
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Watched the video.
So this is the game changer fpalb was talking about. For a start Visa swipe works far better, no messing around to align QR codes. But I can see the big advantage to Starblocks - they don't have to trust their bank. Not so sure that Alice or Bob are too impressed at having to open a BTC account with Starblocks just because the latter don't trust their bank, unless Alice or Bob have something to hide in the source of funds for their coffee.

I note that the video illustrates a price of an espresso at .017 mBTC. Let's say $3 is the going rate at Starbucks then this puts a price tag on 1 BTC of $176,000. The makers of the video are clearly bullish on the price prospects for bitcoin. What will the price be when we get Schnorr signatures? The mind boggles:eek:
 
Come on Duke, just because someone values his privacy does not mean he has something to hide in the source of funds.

If the QR codes really bother you, don't worry. As soon as the back-end of the Lightning Network proves to be solid, there will be many UI improvements, and mimicking the current card technology will the most boring of them all!

And who cares what the video maker thinks of the bitcoin price, its absolutely irrelevant...
 
ant dee said:
And who cares what the video maker thinks of the bitcoin price, its absolutely irrelevant...
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I think it is quite relevant. They went to some effort to produce this video. I see them as almost evangelists who are in pursuit of a promised land. These are not greedy speculators, their dream is a bitcoin that truly acts like a currency. The price they are using is aligned with Investopedia's thought piece around adoption rates of 15% or more of the World's currency needs, that is as important as the mighty dollar. This is their vision.
 
I am sorry, I still do not understand...
What does the price estimation / prediction of the person who made this video got to do with the reliability of the code written to facilitate lightning transactions?
 
ant dee said:
I am sorry, I still do not understand...
What does the price estimation / prediction of the person who made this video got to do with the reliability of the code written to facilitate lightning transactions?
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Are you trolling? I never question any of the technologies at play here. The topic is about the use of bitcoin as a currency. fpalb has alluded to scalability being an issue for bitcoin which this lightening thing will solve. The video is informative in letting us see what the advocates (as opposed to speculators) for bitcoin see as its final destiny as a transactional currency. The choice of the prices in the video illustration was not a casual oversight but a genuine reflection of where these folk see that destiny.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
For a start Visa swipe works far better, no messing around to align QR codes.
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Apple Pay is already using QR Codes too.
And they are probably one of those big corporate-owned, centralized payment providers you prefer.

Think about those plastic cards: every merchant till requires a dedicated piece of hardware, whose sole function is to receive the card and take up space.
It's going to be redundant within 5-10 years.


But if that's your thing, where there is a demand there is a product to sell you.
https://paycent.com/paycent-debit-card/
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
I think it is quite relevant. They went to some effort to produce this video. I see them as almost evangelists who are in pursuit of a promised land. These are not greedy speculators, their dream is a bitcoin that truly acts like a currency. The price they are using is aligned with Investopedia's thought piece around adoption rates of 15% or more of the World's currency needs, that is as important as the mighty dollar. This is their vision.
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In a nutshell, yes.
Different people have different opinions of what Bitcoin is and what Bitcoin should be.
For some, the ability to use it as a currency for day-to-day transactions is a priority.
For others, an immutable, censorship-resistant store of value, used to move large sums, not small.

One is not more right than the other, and like a pendulum, bitcoin through the years and decades may swing between use cases.
 
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According to the Guardian, Bitcoin is being used by the far-right to fund all sorts of nefarious activities..

more than 200 “alt-right” bitcoin wallets, finding that “some folks are getting straight off rich from their bitcoin accounts, which will fuel their ugly activities”

Similarly, pro-Islamic State groups have managed to fund their activities from their bitcoin revenues. For example, a German jihadist Telegram channel that trains its members to carry out cyber-attacks, and was probably involved in the hacks of hundreds of US schools last November, was able to generate enough money to reward its “cyber-jihadists“.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...currency-far-right-neo-nazis-cryptocurrencies

This along with the crazy waste of energy and resultant pollution should mean the end to this at some stage.

I wonder will the banks of the world somehow unite and refuse to cash in Bitcoins for the exchanges / private sellers?
 
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