Denied Boarding due to 'faulty' passport

[mathepac]

... AL is not a passport authority, and an independent arbitrator might come to a different conclusion than AL's check-in staff on the validity of the passport...

Airline staff are the final arbiters. They may seek input from immigration staff, local or at the destination, but only on an advisory basis; ultimately if the travel documents are not acceptable to border control staff at the destination, the airline picks up the tab.

In this day and age it is reckless and irresponsible to try to use travel documents that are not perfect.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

The OP is perfectly entitled to make a case for compensation, on the basis that Aer Lingus may have made a mistake in declaring the passport invalid. This could very well be the case. AL is not a passport authority, and an independent arbitrator might come to a different conclusion than AL's check-in staff on the validity of the passport. Or it might not, but who are we to judge?

OK, how would you advise the following

SunnyM:

Aer Lingus ruined my honeymoon!
I checked in with Aer Lingus at Dublin Airport no problem. But when I got to America, Immigration officials refused my husband entry on the grounds that his passport looked as if it was tampered with. Aer Lingus had to fly him home on the next flight but had no space for me. They charged me €1,000 to fly home the following day and refused to put me up for the night.

Surely Aer Lingus should have stopped us at check-in?

Should I get on to Joe Duffy? That will force them to check people in properly and go ruining their holidays for them.

 

[Complainer]

The nonsense bit here is that (assuming that the OP would have been clearning immigration in Dublin), there was no risk for the US authorities involved. Surely a common-sense approach should have applied, i.e. bring this person down to the US desk and see for definite whether they will accept it or not.

 

[Capt. Beaky]

Homeland Security (a branch of NTA) do not do common sense. This is removed during training.

 

[undo]

Oh my, I used to have a passport for years that I had managed to drench in paint thinner. The colors had bleached and run all over the pages. I never even considered getting that renewed before the expiry date. I am glad I did not try to travel to the US on that...

 

[redchariot]

I had a bit of trouble a few years ago clearing US Immigration as my passport was soaked wet a year earlier and caused all the stamps to leak out; they obviously copped on their computer system that I was in the US on that passport before and they wanted to know why there was no stamp recording this. When I explained what happened they were ok with it an let me through.

 

[redchariot]

My last passport also had the lamination peeling and corners dog-eared after about 8 years or so. I remember flying with Aer Lingus with it at the time to the London and they said that I really needed to replace it as Immigration in some countries (and they specificaly mentioned the US) would not let me in due to the state of it; as I was only going to the UK, it wasn't going to be a problem.

 

[sisterlylove]

Basically the moral of the story is... ALWAYS ensure you have a VALID, INTACT PASSPORT for travel. It is NOT the responsibilty of the airline/immigration but that of the passport holder. Not one of us can say how correct/wrong the airline was, as only m.sunny and her husband (on this thread) have seen how damaged the passport was. Not much more to say than that...

 

[Bronte]

The OP's tale is very sad.

If there is one think I know about travelling it's that going to the US is no joke and they don't do kindness or sympathy. My other half had to change his passport 3 times in one year (about 6 years ago) they were changing the rules so fast. The OP has the obligation to ensure their passport is in order, it was most unfortunate this happened for a honeymoon, Aer Lingus have to make sure they comply with US rules so they have done nothing wrong in this case. This is a no win situation for anyone.

 

[galwegian44]

Good advice RIAD and I'm glad to see that some posters are showing a little sympathy to the couple who had their honeymoon ruined.

Yes, they are responsible for the state of their passports but as I read this I realised that this could easily have been me. I would never have identified this as a potential issue whilst travelling, although now that we're having a conversation about it I realise that I was very naive in not recognising that it could be an issue.

The inconsistency of application would be my big problem with this as I would be willing to bet that if you had checked in at another desk you would probably have been on the plane and off to the USA. I travel about 20 - 30 times a year (mostly to Europe but sometimes to the USA) and I see 'rules' applied inconsistently right across the board, even ones affecting people's security.

I'm really sorry to hear that your honeymoon was ruined and I do hope you get some compensation so that you can rebook a cruise and celebrate.

Good Luck.

Also, none of us here have seen the passport, so we cannot say for sure whether it is invalid. It could be fine, and the AL staff may have over-reacted. And I think the fact that other airlines saw fit to accept the passport in the recent past is perfectly relevant, and should form part of the OP's argument when seeking compensation.

But that's just my advice.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

But this is the "compo" culture which costs us all a fortune in higher costs, higher insurance and higher taxes.

I am sorry for people who fall on the footpath when they are drunk, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for people who carelessly crash their car into a tree, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for someone who misses their honeymoon because they have a tattered passport, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

Brendan

 

[galwegian44]

Brendan - I think there is a fine line here that we find ourselves on opposite sides. I'm totally against the 'compo' culture also personally I see a distinction between the drunk person injuring themselves and the person being refused access to their dream holiday because of a passport:

- they potentially may not have been aware even had an issue (I don't believe it was 'tattered')
- that possibly would have been accepted by another check-in attendant (as we have seen from anecdotal evidence from other posters)

I don't see blatant disregard of responsibility and I see massive disappointment around an event that you hope to only do once in a lifetime. I guess I also see that this could possibly have happened to me also whereas I'm hoping that I'm more in control of my drinking and my driving.

All the best.

But this is the "compo" culture which costs us all a fortune in higher costs, higher insurance and higher taxes.

I am sorry for people who fall on the footpath when they are drunk, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for people who carelessly crash their car into a tree, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for someone who misses their honeymoon because they have a tattered passport, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

Brendan

 

[TreeTiger]

I am regularly amazed at how many people do not realise they can renew their passport before the expiry date. In the last week alone I have come across two situations, one of a young man - early 20s - who was frustrated because he doesn't look anything like his passport photo at this stage, but the passport has a couple of years of validity left on it.

The other instance is of a man in his 50s who has to go to the US soon and was frustrated because he couldn't find out how long a passport had to be valid for when entering the States. His has three months left on it, but it apparently never crossed his mind that he should pay for a new passport before the expiry date on his current one.

There have been several times in airports where I've noticed people with tatty passports, and I'm often surprised that check in staff don't advise having them replaced before it gets to the stage that they are unacceptable. I just dug out my own passport to see if it gives any advice and nothing is mentioned about renewing before the expiry date. The nearest bit of advice (inside the back cover) is that if the passport is lost or damaged this should be reported to the Passport Office.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=8493

As with all countries, you are required to have a valid passport to enter Thailand. Your passport is an important document and should be treated carefully. A number of Irish citizens have been deported from Thailand back to Ireland for attempting to enter the country on a damaged passport. The Thai immigration authorities do not accept passports that have missing pages or have been damaged in any way.

 

[m.sunny]

The nonsense bit here is that (assuming that the OP would have been clearning immigration in Dublin), there was no risk for the US authorities involved. Surely a common-sense approach should have applied, i.e. bring this person down to the US desk and see for definite whether they will accept it or not.

Hi OP here again

I would have thought, (in hindsight) the above option might have been offered us i.e. An Aer Lingus supervisor (?) bring us down and ask the US desk? The confusing part of the whole thing for us, was that 4 separate Aer Lingus staff had differing opinions about whether it was bad or not (and it honestly wasnt).. so there was a grey area about the whole thing - if it was really bad, we would accept it was our responsability. He used the same passport only 3 weeks before as his check in ID on another Aer Lingus flight (to UK though), why did no one mention it to him then?

 

[m.sunny]

But this is the "compo" culture which costs us all a fortune in higher costs, higher insurance and higher taxes.

I am sorry for people who fall on the footpath when they are drunk, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for people who carelessly crash their car into a tree, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for someone who misses their honeymoon because they have a tattered passport, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

Brendan

Brendan, neither i nor my husband are of the 'Compo Culture' that you mention, in fact we are probably the exact opposite and probably never vocal enough in such situations. Given the fact that it was special holiday, celebrating a special time, made the whole thing very difficult, and for once we thought to actually try and follow it up, instead of just accepting 'what we were told' - We are not querying any of this to do people out of money, or 'get claims' etc... We pay enough insurances and premiums of our own (no doubt to fund much less honest people).. it was merely on the advise of others not to be so quick to take it lying down.... your points are valid though, so I do thank you for taking the time to give us your opinions..

 

[Ceist Beag]

But this is the "compo" culture which costs us all a fortune in higher costs, higher insurance and higher taxes.

I am sorry for people who fall on the footpath when they are drunk, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for people who carelessly crash their car into a tree, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

I am sorry for someone who misses their honeymoon because they have a tattered passport, but I don't want to see them compensated at my expense.

Brendan

Brendan I have to admit I find your tone in this thread to be bordering on insulting. The OP did not mention a tattered passport. In fact the OP mentioned that there was even disagreement among the Aer Lingus staff as to whether the passport was acceptable. I know you're trying to stick to the facts here and ignore the fact that it was their honeymoon which is fair enough but why then ignore the facts to try and get your own point across? We only have the version given by the OP so who is to say they didn't just get unlucky with a member of staff who was a real stickler and/or having a bad day.
Personally I feel really sorry for the OP here and it does sound like there was a real lack of common sense and proper procedure on the part of Aer Lingus and I think it does require a bit more than simply one member of staffs opinion on whether the passport is valid or not to prevent someone from taking their trip. There should be clear guidelines provided as to what is acceptable and what is not and it sounds like this is not the case here.

 

[Bronte]

- they potentially may not have been aware even had an issue (I don't believe it was 'tattered')
- that possibly would have been accepted by another check-in attendant (as we have seen from anecdotal evidence from other posters)

.

The fact that the OP was not aware there was an issue is not relevant, the OP and the rest of us have to know the rules. Ignorance is not a defence. Things such as I didn't realise my passport is out of date, I didn't realise that my passport has to last 6 months longer than my stay, I didn't realise I need a visa, I didn't realise I need a machine readable passport or in this case a passport that was not up to the specifications of the US authorities is what is relevant.

So what if another attendant would have passed the passport, this doesn't mean the OP would have gained entry to the US. They might have been lucky and passed but if it would have resulted in a fine for Aer Lingus who was acting under orders and not out of spite well then that should be good enough for the OP.

The fact that it was a honeymoon is colouring people's opinion of this story. The OP was unlucky and it is for sure a sad story but it doens't change the fact that the Aer Lingus person had to apply the rules.

Comparing an Irish person going to the UK and and that same person going to the USA is not the same thing at all. I think you don't even need a passport for the UK any kind of ID will do.

Interesting that the insurance company doesn't cover it, I'm sure there is a clause in the policy that states it is the traveller's reasponsiblity to ensure there travel documentation is in order and they will not pay out if it isn't.

 

[Ceist Beag]

The fact that the OP was not aware there was an issue is not relevant, the OP and the rest of us have to know the rules. Ignorance is not a defence. Things such as I didn't realise my passport is out of date, I didn't realise that my passport has to last 6 months longer than my stay, I didn't realise I need a visa, I didn't realise I need a machine readable passport or in this case a passport that was not up to the specifications of the US authorities is what is relevant.

So what if another attendant would have passed the passport, this doesn't mean the OP would have gained entry to the US. They might have been lucky and passed but if it would have resulted in a fine for Aer Lingus who was acting under orders and not out of spite well then that should be good enough for the OP.

But Bronte I don't think you are comparing like with like here either. It is very easy to know if your passport is out of date or if you need a visa. It is not very easy to know if your passport is in an acceptable state to US authorities. Surely it wouldn't be hard to have clear guidelines for this? I think any system based on one persons opinion (in other words who you get at the gate) rather than being based on published guidelines is a flawed system.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Brendan I have to admit I find your tone in this thread to be bordering on insulting. The OP did not mention a tattered passport. In fact the OP mentioned that there was even disagreement among the Aer Lingus staff as to whether the passport was acceptable. I know you're trying to stick to the facts here and ignore the fact that it was their honeymoon which is fair enough but why then ignore the facts to try and get your own point across?

Unfortunately, people often find the bare facts of a case to be insulting. We much prefer the "Ah, shure it will do. Put a bit of sticking plaster on it and hope for the best".

I don't get your point at all about my not sticking to the facts. This is the OP's own description

the check-in desk deemed his passport faulty (lamination was slighltly seperated from the paper) and corners a little dog-eared (passport 9 years old).

I think "tattered" is a good summary of that.

The disagreement among Aer Lingus staff is irrelevant. The final decision would be made by Immigration in America. It is too late then to say, I told you so.

Complainer raised a good point about asking US Immigration in Dublin Airport to clear it. I wonder was that an option?