DAFT:Rents increase for 1st time in 2 years

Knuttell said:
Rents have stopped falling and are starting to increase according to the DAFT rental report released today.

Print off a copy of the report and hand it to your tenant next time they come looking for a reduction...that should soften their cough.
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A little bit premature? Rents increased by 1% during one month after a 15% drop last year. This is at a time that is traditionally busy in the rental market.

Instead of reading the soundbytes in the news today people should read the full report.
The interaction of falling incomes, rising interest rates, higher unemployment and emigration could break in any number of directions for the rental market - most of them not good.
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Also worth reading is the blog by Daft's analyst Ronan Lyons. Reality looks far less black and white than the snippets the newspapers like to print.

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/02/16/stop-the-press-rents-go-up-in-january/
 
noel_c said:
A little bit premature?
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Not at all Noel,at the first sign of rent drops in 2008 DAFT report,I had tenants ringing me up looking for a decrease in their rents despite being in the early stage of a first lease....it cuts both ways,just because some people may not like what the current DAFT report presents,paint it any way you like,they were quite happy to quote me (ad nauseum) tracts from previous reports while demanding a decrease.
 
Have to agree with Knuttell, tenants are very quick to call you and insist you renegotiate rent, hopefully this will keep them quiet for while !
 
Sorry lads, rents will be decreasing for a long while yet. You can show tenants reorts all you like, if they see better value near them then you will be dropping your rent or losing tenants.
 
Oversupply will see further drops. Tenants have become far more choosy. Old fashioned landlords with dingy properties will be the worst hit.
 
Strange I never had any tenant quote me DAFT reports. Surely landlords aren't going to go to their tenant's to demand a 1% increase. My experience is that my rents have decreased (slightly, less than 10%) but they decreased last year only. I actually had anticipated more of a drop and more tenant's asking but our pricing must be ok so have never had the DAFT drops. Also noticed that many of the foreign workers have been going home and that a lot more people are on the dole and looking for rent allowance.

This 1% could be down to people moving in January, a traditionally time for this as is September (students) causing some kind of blip. Rent's are not rising and will come down more this year especially as more and more of the foreign workers prsi dole payments come to an end and also when indigenous workers prsi dole payments end and they head off into the blue yonder - personal prediction. Location, quality accommodation will be key then. Oversupply in Leitrim will not bother some of us landlords but it may do for those in commuter towns and outlying suberbs when they have to compete with city properties.
 
Knuttell said:
Print off a copy of the report and hand it to your tenant next time they come looking for a reduction...that should soften their cough.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but you speak about tenants like they were the enemy and thereby you give other landlords a bad name.
 
That report shows rents rose 1% in January bringing the yoy fall to -12% (by my brief reading of the figures). If you're renewing a lease surely it's the yoy figure that matters?
Unless you change the terms of your leases on a monthly basis in reponse to every media report the figure that matters is the change since the lease was last signed.
 
Chocks away said:
Oversupply will see further drops. will be the
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Not according to Daftwatch,it shows a dramatic fall off in the number of properties to rent in Dublin for the first time in 24 months...a coincidence?Seasonal fall off?

I think not chocs,old sport.

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Knuttell said:
Not according to Daftwatch,it shows a dramatic fall off in the number of properties to rent in Dublin for the first time in 24 months...a coincidence?Seasonal fall off?

I think not chocs,old sport.

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Ha, wishful thinking. There are still about 3 times as much properties for rent than a few years back and more than that nationally.

On top of that you have these blocks of 300 unsold apartments everywhere that are not being sold but are just being rented by the developers/banks. You won't see 300 Daft ads for these places though, just a few.
 
Buddyg said:
There are still about 3 times as much properties for rent than a few years back and more than that nationally.
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Daftwatch only started monitoring rentals and sales from late 2006 onward,plus DAFT as a property website grew hugely in these years,ergo more properties were captured in this rough graph.

Also in that time there was a massive increase of properties that were previously for sale PPRs that were lumped onto the rental market,the housing market is staring to move sluggishly at the FTB end again and these houses are now being sold.

There are a hell of a lot very shabby properties sub 1k per month,that even in the good times would be hard to shift and are now just sitting there for ages as the Landlord holds out stubbornly for tiger rents...

My point is simple enough,the amt of properties for rent has fallen,rents are starting to stabilise,if a property is priced for the market,well presented and central,it will rent fast...the days of tenants looking for reductions mid lease,is in my opinion over.
 
Knuttell said:
Daftwatch only started monitoring rentals and

My point is simple enough,the amt of properties for rent has fallen,rents are starting to stabilise,if a property is priced for the market,well presented and central,it will rent fast...the days of tenants looking for reductions mid lease,is in my opinion over.
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Agree with your last point, which is why my rental turned around in three days last week. If the rent is right, the property clean and located in a quiet estate then there should be no problem.
 
The days of tenants getting rent reductions has only really begun.

Every week the pool of waged tenants is falling hugely. There are 300k empty houses out there, what happens when these start hitting the rental market?

How many of this years graduates have jobs? How many are going abroad?

Nama and rent allowance are the only thing stopping rents halving in the next year.
 
Buddyg said:
Every week the pool of waged tenants is falling hugely. There are 300k empty houses out there, what happens when these start hitting the rental market?
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The 300k will be dramatically reduced in the next few years as a lot of ghost estates are torn down,make no mistake this will happen.
Waged tenants or S/W tenants as long as the rent is paid and property cared for,I aint fussy Buddy.
 
Knuttell said:
The 300k will be dramatically reduced in the next few years as a lot of ghost estates are torn down,make no mistake this will happen.
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Since you seem to have an interest in Dublin, do you think the 20,000 homes in Dublin waiting to be taken over by NAMA will be torn down? Do you think banks will start to lend so that buyers will hoover them up? Or do you think it's possible the government will feed small landlords to the wolves and flood the market with the properties to get some kind of return for the prices NAMA will pay?

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Knuttell said:
Waged tenants or S/W tenants as long as the rent is paid and property cared for,I aint fussy Buddy.
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Presumably you're assuming that rent allowance will stay at current levels while our deficit grows.

Aside from this I concur with Bronte. If you take such a jaundiced adversarial attitude in your dealings with your tenants, you shoudn't be surprised if you get treated in the same way in return. It cuts both ways etc. Honestly this kind of confrontational approach gives decent landlords a bad name.
 
The cost of a good tenant leaving is fairly large. Empty house for at least a week, ptrb fee , advertising costs and all the work of vetting and showing new tenants. And then the worry of having them actually pay.

If you start waving your 1% daft reports at tenants you could be in for quite a land.
 
noel_c said:
Aside from this I concur with Bronte. If you take such a jaundiced adversarial attitude in your dealings with your tenants, you shoudn't be surprised if you get treated in the same way in return. It cuts both ways etc. Honestly this kind of confrontational approach gives decent landlords a bad name.
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Merely arguing a case or a point of view,hardly confrontational or adversarial Noel.
 
Merely arguing a case or a point of view,hardly confrontational or adversarial Noel.
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You come across as embittered, intentional or not. You're under no obligation to lower, nor of course have any entitlement to raise, rents during a lease. If after that if you resent negotiation maybe being a landlord isn't quite suited to you.

Also, might I be the first to point out that these are "asking rents", not simply "rents" or "achieved rents". We should be used to this opacity, of course, living in Ireland. But a one percent increase over a one month period when we don't even have the actual figure for what we're supposed to measure is hardly indicative of a trend. I'll certainly be waiting until the end of Q1 before making any pronouncements.
 
As far as I can see it goes both ways - If a good tenant cannot afford the rent due to job loss, etc. then a good landlord will come to an agreement with the tenant.

My salary was cut 20% and I also lost a days work at one stage and my landlord recognised he had good tenants who kept the house in excellent condition (v. houseproud), were good neighbours and quiet tenants and he wanted to keep us there. Our rent covers his mortgage plus a little extra, and we can afford it. Everyone wins.

This whole Landlords vs. Tenants debacle is ridiculous. If both are understanding and willing to come to an agreement it can work out well. However I do have to input my 2 cents and mention that I believe rent will have to reduce further this year and not rise - the level of unemployment is still rising in this country and we have very little job prospects. I believe if a Landlords mortgage is being covered by rent payments then they should be thanking their lucky stars they dont have an empty house!!
 
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