Crisis in Ukraine

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cremeegg

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One of the many risks facing us all is the possibility of war.

The current crisis in Ukraine has the potential to spin out of control.

Having lived and worked in Kharkov in the East of Ukraine for a short period, my opinion is that the root cause of the problem is that in 20 odd years of independence the citizens of Ukraine failed to elect a competent or honest government.

Ukraine is potentially wealthy. it has vast areas of fertile agricultural land that is hardly farmed. During communist times it people had a higher standard of living than Poland, today the are much worse off.

See this link for a good overview of the current crisis.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
 
Have we managed to elect a capable or honest Government since we got our independence?
 
cremeegg said:
Ukraine is potentially wealthy. it has vast areas of fertile agricultural land that is hardly farmed. During communist times
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I don't know anything about Ukraine, but during a communist regime, nobody will invest in anything like agriculture where, at the whim of the government, any private property can be seized. Shame.
 
Firefly said:
I don't know anything about Ukraine, but during a communist regime, nobody will invest in anything like agriculture where, at the whim of the government, any private property can be seized. Shame.
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During the communist era it was known as the breadbasket of the Soviet Union.
 
cremeegg said:
We may have elected Charlie Haughey and Ray Burke but we never put John Gilligan or Wayne Dundon in Government.
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We elected Martin ferris and Gerry Adams. Indeed Gerry could lead Sinn Fein into the next Government.
 
cremeegg said:
We may have elected Charlie Haughey and Ray Burke but we never put John Gilligan or Wayne Dundon in Government.
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I can't be sure but i don't think either of those <ahem> gentlemen actually put themselves up for election... Dundon doesn't seem to have the charm necessary for canvassing but I suspect Gilligan might have - who is to say he wouldn't have succeeded?

I guess it could be viewed as being very Christian... One could argue we are very forgiving of (some) criminals...
 
I think it is pretty harsh to blame Ukraine for the problems it is facing now...
If it was simply Ukraines fault then the other former Soviet Republics wouldnt be as nervous as they presently are.
 
The_Banker said:
I think it is pretty harsh to blame Ukraine for the problems it is facing now...
If it was simply Ukraines fault then the other former Soviet Republics wouldnt be as nervous as they presently are.
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The options are Russian Police State rule or the neo-fascists they have now.
Why is it so often the case that the options are the bad guys or the bad guys? (Syria, Ukraine, Russia, Rwanda, Iran, Afghanistan... the list is endless).
 
The_Banker said:
I think it is pretty harsh to blame Ukraine for the problems it is facing now...
If it was simply Ukraines fault then the other former Soviet Republics wouldnt be as nervous as they presently are.
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The Baltic states may be nervous but because over the last 20 years they have succeeded in building functioning democracies and functioning economies they are in a much less vulnerable position than Ukraine.

They have also made international alliances in the EU, which in turn was possible because they had built a democracy and an economy.

They are also members of NATO. A significant foreign policy achievement for them.

Belarus has also failed to build a successful state, (although not the basket case Ukraine was before the current crisis). It too could be sucked in by Russia.
 
Purple said:
The options are Russian Police State rule or the neo-fascists they have now.
Why is it so often the case that the options are the bad guys or the bad guys? (Syria, Ukraine, Russia, Rwanda, Iran, Afghanistan... the list is endless).
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Because no one was developing a positive vision for the future, no one was giving leadership in support of any positive inclusive vision of Ukraine's future, and the Ukranian people were not able to identify and support any positive vision for their future.

We may laugh today at Dev's athletic youths and comely maidens, but it was a positive vision that people were willing to support.
 
Minister confirms mechanism to encourage Ukrainians home - RTE

Putin says he thinks Russia-Ukraine war is coming to an end - RTE

Vladimir Putin earlier this week said he believed Russia's war with Ukraine was coming to an end. - Sky

Is the war coming to an end? Or is it just Putin propaganda infiltrating Irish and British media?

I hope its the end of the war, and moves by the Irish Government to assist Ukranians to return to their homeland suggest this may be the case. Otherwise it would be seriously inhumane gesture to assist returning refugees to a war zone.

The Sky News report above highlights continuing conflict however.
 
Sister Sara said:
the war coming to an end? Or is it just Putin propaganda infiltrating Irish and British media
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I think that something has changed with putin, thats the first time he has ever actually said the war is coming to an end so categorically.
He is coming under huge pressure from the insiders and oligarchs in the kremlin because despite the enormous cost of the war, the russian military is not achieving anything and is now being pushed back in some areas of the front.
Also Russia should be benifitting greatly from the closure of strait of hormuz but it cant get much oil out due to ukrainian strikes on refineries and european sanctions.
Putin was stupid not to take trump peace offer a year ago, he could have kept the occupied territories and be raking in the money from high oil prices, the russian refineries would have been operating at full capacity now. His stupid maximalist demands scuppered that
 
Yes it was brilliant, he made a great point that Russia is 17 million square km, yet he expended 280,000 russian casualties in order to grab 1000 square km of my country. If putin had concentrated on improving that area that Russia already owned rather than invading other countries to grab their territory and expending vast numbers of poor russian soldiers. The war is complete madness driven by the stupid ego of one old man.
 
joe sod said:
If putin had concentrated on improving that area that Russia already owned rather than invading other countries
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I've often thought about this. It's no wonder Russia doesn't have to deal with immigration.....nobody in their right mind would want to go there!
 
joe sod said:
The war is complete madness driven by the stupid ego of one old man.
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That's actually quite a profound statement when referenced against all aggressors and war-mongers throughout history to today.

It could be modified in many instances of course, but essentially you have hit the nail on the head in my opinion.
 
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