Key Post Cost of central heating.

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glenamaddy

Guest
Re: modulating combi condensing boilers

Quote “It is obviously not about a modulating boiler. And it is obviously wrongly installed-1min.40 sec waiting for warm water is either the fault of the plumber (the pipe diameter to wide or the pipe to long and/or not insulated) or the boiler has not enough capacity, no small storage tank and/ or the heat exchanger is a slow reacting one, in a good boiler the capacity can be set to individual demand. And in a good boiler the temperature is set and kept by the modulating element-so no problem with boiling under the shower or freezing.”

Wrong, there can be a dead leg between the boiler and draw off point. A modulating boiler will make no difference.

Quote “But that you never call back to the place where you have installed a boiler -hm, I hope you have told your clients that all boilers should be serviced and controlled with the appropriate instruments at least once per year, like a Lada or a Mercedes as well, including the electrics.”

All my clients are made aware that boilers require servicing annually. There are never any problems with systems I install, hence my phrase “no call backs”

Quote “Modern boilers have a "electric memory" build in that will tell the service person what is wrong-that is if he/she is trained to use the necessary instruments -as in a modern garage. “

I am well aware how the internals of a boiler operates, my point is that combi boilers are troublesome and expensive to repair when problems occur.


Quote “Why should there be a problem of changing water pressure? If the capacity of the public water mains is not good enough than do something about it”.

When you fit a pump on your incoming main, you rob the pressure on adjoining connections. When this occurs everyone suffers.
 
H

heinbloed

Guest
mccb

Sorry glenmaddy , no insult was meant by my part.
When I said that it was the plumbers fault that the client got boiling water on his back-regarding to the article of the guardian which you kindly supplied-I really meant it.Why did the installer not check if the installation he/she put in place is actually working?After all that is what he or she gets paid for.
I am not a plumber and don't understand your point about the "dead leg" .I run a self installed and self adjusted boiler-commissioned!- and read the manual well.
An electrically controlled device in the boiler avoids overheating.I run a combi condensing boiler with a separate control for the temperature of the tap water.This control runs independently from the room heating circuit.
The temperature of the tap water can be set to demand-in my case at 42 Celsius.And the temperature of the room heating circuit is set to demand as well-in my case it depends on the outside temperature.
Two different circuits that do what they should do.Like a electronically controlled car that has a speed limit build in.It does what it says on the can(smiley).
A modulating boiler makes a lot of a difference.
However-I begin to understand your point about the " dead leg"-I installed as well automatic (not electronically controlled )taps. Any ups and downs in delivered water temperature are eliminated-leveled out- by them mixing the arriving hot and cold water.So there are two independently operating mechanisms.The outlet temperature of a combi boiler can have a tolerance of 2 degrees.But even that tolerance can be reduced/set by a person who has read and understood the manual.In my case the boiler has a factory set tolerance of 2-2 degrees which avoids freezing or boiling temperatures-the so called modulating mechanism turns up the flame or turns it down as soon as the sensors detect any fluctuation.
Since I use the self controlling showertap as well there is no feel able temperature drop or temperature rise -childproof and foolproof.Not feel able means LESS than 2 degrees Celsius difference which means 1-1degrees Celsius.
These taps can be found in LIDL for € 29 and in other shops for €80 upwards.
A good plumber should be able to advice his clients on what can be done, what is state of the art.Not only when he/she is asked for .The standard in "modern" plumbing here in Ireland is 50% energy waste and little comfort and safety-scalding and freezing under droplets of unhygienic water (from the tank).When you go to the dentist and he pulls them all out it would be the cheaper solution on the short term-but not what you want. Investing just a little bit extra for the moment can mean a lot of savings in the long term .
Which boilers that you have seen are troublesome and expensive to repair ?Here is the right place place to name and shame these boilers,maybe the other chapter at AAM " good deals and bad deals" would be even better.So if you have first hand information your opinion is more than welcomed ,not only you would be able to tell the readers how to safe money and the manufacturers what is wrong with their products-you would do your altruistic bit to make this world a better place.
Winter is approaching and the war is going on.The less we consume the less killing will there be.Spread the message. Do your bit to bring the boys home ,invest in our education.
And about the pump :There are devices-called automatic sensors- that can be put between the pump and the main pipe .They switch off the pump as soon as the pressure in the mains are to little.How much pressure is on your mains?Would be enough for direct feed?The waterworks all over Ireland have upgraded the system over the last years a good deal, your connection might belong to the majority of the well pressurised .You can measure the pressure with a device for as little
€4.50,available from the local plumbing shop....
 
L

legend99

Guest
..

Can i ask a general question and maybe leverage your expertise?
I have a new house, but its the standard install heating system. Hot water cylinder in the hot press, boiler in the kitchen, immersion in the tank etc etc. its a 4 bed house in an estate.
Question, there are 3 seperate pumps on the system. I presume one is for up, one is for downstairs, one is for hot water. The only change I had made was to get a much bigger cylinder and its a rapid recovery one.

Now, the only control on the system is the basic 24 hour clock in 15 minute segments on the front of the boiler.....is it possible to retrospectively fit an electronic control that would allow me to control the zones seperately?
Also, I assume a rapid recovery cylinder is only actually any good if the immersion or boiler is on...i assume it doesn't kick in and force one on? I have a power shower you see that needs the hot water feed and I want to avoid freezing me nuts off if water runs out. I assume that also means that if we do not use the heating during the summer we will need to have the immersion come on to get hot water....so is it possible to get a timer for an immersion.....see i had been thinking that if i could control the zones seperately I could avoid this becauase I could just time the water zone to come on in the boiler in the summer mornings...

Seperate question then...my mothers heating...34 year old system etc. At this stage 3 of the 8 rads have been replaced...and its a replacemtn boiler..still 10 years old though. Now, she is complaingin of the house being cold. I bled the rads but noticed bizarrely that the bottom of the rads are not heating....they are the old style rads ridged every 3 inches roughly...any idea what might cause that. if she was to invest money in her system...can she continue to use the old pipework and just slot in new rads and a new boiler....i,.e. basically avoid wreckign the floor in 5 rooms!
Thanks for any help in advance.
 
H

heinbloed

Guest
answer

If your question is :is it possible to retrospectively fit an electronic control that would allow the zones heated seperately ?
Than the answer is yes.These devices are called thermostats.The sensors can be hung to the wall ,with or without cable(remote control),with or without timer.
The receiver can turn on a pump or open a valve.If the necessary temperature is reached the sensor will "tell" this to the receiver which will give a signal to the pump/valve.
The more commonly used thermostats are the ones that are connected to the flow(inlet) of the radiator.They are cheaper but don't give the same comfort i.e.the heat distribution in the room compared to the wall mounted ones can be more fluctuating.But they are the standard types,most people haven't tried out the other ones.The advantage of the wall mounted thermostats is that they are flexible ,the positioning can be changed so the demanded temperature for a particular spot in the room can be achieved more accurately.
Try the web page of DANFOSS or other manufacturers.
You really need only one pump for the heating if you use thermostats over the entire house.This pump will be controlled by a manual switch or a timer,the existing control that you have.
And to get your immersion tank warm in the summer:
Close all radiator valves and let the timer do his job.It will turn on the pump and the boiler and this will warm up the water in the immersion tank.It is wasting energy,a combi boiler would give you warm water instantly but it works .
Your mothers radiators are staying cold at the bottom.
This could have two different reasons.It is possible that they have not been properly set.There are two valves at each radiator.One letting the warm water in and one letting the cooled -down water out.So one of them is not open enough,usually the outlet.
The second reason could be debris in the radiator,sort of corrosion sludge.You could take the radiator off(close both valves before disconnecting it) and clean it in the bath tub or better in the garden with a hose by flushing it out. The old cast iron ones can be very heavy,you need a helper.And try to avoid the water/sludge coming out of them getting on the carpet,these would be stubborn stains .
 
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legend99

Guest
..

Thanks Hein...you are a man of much knowledge...esp like the fact you seemed to have built much of yoru own house. Thinking about it, there is already an upstairs and downstairs thermostat. This means that if I put the temp on them way down in the summer the pump for that zone will nto switch on and I can avoid the hassle of closing every valve. suppose what i was hoping for was a central electronic control under the boiler where I could control each zone for different timings...
 
G

glenamaddy

Guest
Re: ..Heating

Thats exactly what the 2 thermostats are for. One for the living zone (downstairs) and the other for the sleeping zone (upstairs). The third zone should be the hot water, which will be controlled by a thermostat on the cylinder.

You can put a central programmer within the system, to control all 3 zones, but it will require rewiring, lifting floors, etc, etc.

With regards to the older system, this is sludge at the bottom of the rads. This may be removed by powerflushing the entire system. Be warned though, It can be risky
 

Nashville

Registered User
Messages
22
Re: Key Post: Cost of central heating.

Hi there.

I'm considering installing central heating into a 1920s terraced house, circa 600sqft. Currently only has storage heaters. Would anyone have any idea how much this would cost?

Thanks!
 

pache

Registered User
Messages
48
Re: Key Post: Cost of central heating.

hello people, im a heating contractor and very much dislike combi boilers because of there flow rate and WHEN they break down,wow what a nightmare and a cost. A company i do business with have in my estimation broken the mould on combi's,check them out,R V R .ie.
 
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Peter C

Guest
Re: Key Post: Cost of central heating.

Personally I was never impressed by the products sold by RVR, a good web site though.
 

DavyJones

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,987
Re: Key Post: Cost of central heating.

Hi there.

I'm considering installing central heating into a 1920s terraced house, circa 600sqft. Currently only has storage heaters. Would anyone have any idea how much this would cost?

Thanks!
Depends on a few things, location and fuel you plan on burning?

hello people, im a heating contractor and very much dislike combi boilers because of there flow rate and WHEN they break down,wow what a nightmare and a cost. A company i do business with have in my estimation broken the mould on combi's,check them out,R V R .ie.
I have only bad things to say about RVR. Shockingly bad after sells support. I have called their tech line a few times, never could speak to anyone, left message with operator and to date no-one has ever rang me or any of my lads back. This has left me very unimpressed. For this reason I would not do business with them or recommend them to my clients.
 

RVR

Registered User
Messages
13
Re: Key Post: Cost of central heating.

I have called their tech line a few times, never could speak to anyone, left message with operator and to date no-one has ever rang me or any of my lads back. This has left me very unimpressed. For this reason I would not do business with them or recommend them to my clients.
Sorry if you've had problems DavyJones? You have a PM.
 
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