Child Maintenance for my partners child.

Re: Child Maintenance

Hi Orka,

To answer your question on income, my partner is earning, in his new job, about 500 euro a week gross. He had 2 jobs before this one, but with no stability. So we think we're slightly better off, even if wages are slightly less because his income is regular now. How you assess whether 300 euro maintenance is enough/too little with this amount of pay I don't know. We have a mortgage €1200/month, we don't go out a lot (actually mostly when its required of us), we have bills as well, and we're getting married next year. I'm not saying we're stuck for money but we're not flash.

If I put the situation another way. Say my partner decided to work part-time, and I was the main bread winner and earned a substantial amount using 250,000 as an exaggeration (I do currently earn more than my partner, so I won't be working part time anytime soon). On paper he wouldn't be earning a lot and therefore he would possibly pay less maintenance?, or, would my situation have to be taking into account although the child in question is not my responsibility (legally)? Would you think it fair on the mother that the father would be living the high life and the maintenance be less? Then, what if we consider the mother's situation at present. If she is to work part time and her partner whom she has a mortgage/child with is the main bread winner and is coming in with a substantial sum. I don't think her partner's income would be taken into account when assessing child maintenance payments? Maybe I'm totally wrong here. Things aren't always black and white and while it is reasonable to assess maintenance on my partner's income it doesn't always make sense. Also, how much does a child cost?? If a father earns more money and has a successful job and is in this situation, does this mean that the cost of living for the child is increased?? Does the child need more clothes, more toys, more food because of this? Of course, you can buy extra nice things etc etc. but where do you draw the line on what you hand over in maintenance.

orka said:
Jan07, can you give us a rough idea of your partner's monthly income as it is hard to judge whether €300 per month is excessive or not without knowing this - if he is on minimum wage, €300 is a huge amount but if he's on €250,000, €300 would seem a bit on the light side! I
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Re: Child Maintenance

Thanks for your reply! I don't feel so much the wicked stepmother now! I expect somebody to attack your response after the boozy nights comment! But I have heard this to be the case in many circumstances, not that everyone doesn't deserve an night out, but you have to draw the line somewhere! I don't think we'll be seeking legal advice now. To be honest I don't think I could hack it and its not worth it. It'll take a lot to change the system..and I don't think a small group of stepmothers would make a huge difference, I think we've already got a bad name!!

I hope you're very happy otherwise.

purplealien said:
Jan - it's a shame to see you being attacked for asking a simple question.
The thing is we wouldnt mind if the money was actually going to the child instead of the mothers boozy nights out! ( Wait for everybody to attack!)
Cant stand the way everybody always stands up for the single mother. Alot of them are bitter and twisted! The majority are fine but people need to realise there are some that are not.
Anyway Jan, to answer your question, i dont think you'll be able to get it reduced.
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Re: Child Maintenance

Jan07
You have my sympathy too - close relation of mine is in this situation and he pays €400 per month for the child plus half of all doctor's,dentist's etc bills and school books and trips. Mother works full-time and he buys the child lots of clothes and stuff when she's with them. Plus top up her mobile, pays for concerts..list is endless. The mother wanted more and sent solicitor's letters to that effect. He took advice and wrote back that they would take it to be officially settled in court as this all only started after he married. There's been no response to this for a couple of months. Mother is very bitter about marriage even tho they havent been together for years and launched all this after the couple took the child on a 2 week sun holiday.
They're hoping she'll drop it as they're to the pin of their collar financially as it is, so I can understand your worries. Solicitor did tell him that the courts would not reduce payments unless he lost his job.
Best of luck and don't mind the naysayers..you're right to look out for yourselves as well as the child.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

€75 p/w is the recommended minimum payment, so €300 pm seems fair enough. I have an interest in hearing from the other side (as it were) to see if I can come to terms with what I can only call my total loss of faith in the justice system after a bewildering day in court. After 8 years of separation I finally got the courage to bring my ex husband to court to get support for my two children. Tough day to say the least. I'm raging with the system, and have since met many women that have had a raw deal also. Our experience is a far cry from what is generally reflected in the media as the bitter rantings of some fathers seem to take centre stage. Seems to me that appeasment to this group is being reflected in the unfair judgements and our children are all the poorer for it.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

I think alot of people are getting wrapped up in the fathers rights and single mother camps here. This can become very emotional on both. There's loads of bad father's out there and loads of bad mums but most are trying to do their best. Unfortunately the Courts do have there place especially in your case resting but from experience they make often amicable relationships worse. It's the them and us mentality which even comes across on this thread. I know a few single parents who get very little and the father isn't really involved and that's the fathers loss. My side is that I'm a single dad who pays €450 per month maintenance. I never had a problem paying this even before it was agreed in court. On the Father's side it is unfair that all unmarried fathers have no rights at all to there child(ren). No guardianship, access, joint custody etc. You have to go to court to get them. My view is that they should be awarded automatically and then if the Dad is useless removed by the court, not the other way round. Innocent until proven guilty! Resting - I sympathise with u. Just shows u that there is useless Dads again which undermines my argument. I understand ur anger but remember the decent Dads shouldn't pay for others mistakes. Fathers rights is getting more publicity but nothing has changed in the 10 years or so regarding our rights. Treoir, a single parents group has been looking for a guardianship register for years and they haven't even given us that. McDowell said he didn't see the point, but then again why not? Jan07 - Your partner is responsible. Paying €75 p.w and maintaining the child 1/2 the week. The most the court will award is €150 p.w. per child(don't shoot the messenger) so thats not unreasonable. Maybe u should look for maintenance of the mother for your 1/2 week! Ouch! Only joking. Just trying to make the point that u have 1/2 week as well. He should apply for guardianship and probably joint custody in ur case.Tho probably the mother will then look for extra maintenance. The them and us mentality again. Ignore the comments about how she spends the money. God forbid you question that! The way I look at it if the child is being cared for well during the week it doesn't matter if she goes for a weekend away with the maintenance it's still paying for the child during the week. Rise above the pettiness! U point out the inequalities well too. If u or ur partner are on €250,000 the max is €150. If you are on that money does it cost any extra to maintain a child? Purplealien - Have got that old clothes trick myself. Just keep some new ones with you and send the old ones back. Sad! tho. On the CB thing it's amazing how even if the father has custody of the children how difficult it is to get the state to change things. Could go on forever on this thread but there was a tax case from the UK in the EU court of Human rights recently that ruled that unmarried fathers who pay maintenance and have access to their children should be treated the same as seperated married fathers. Basically they were in the same situation and as the marriage had ended why should the married father be treated differently? There is plenty of EU Law on this but nothing ever seems to be enacted in Ireland
 
Re: Child Maintenance

I have looked hard at the original post, to try and get back to what this is about: The welfare of the child. How much is paid, what should be paid, etc., etc., is irrelevant. This cjhild is luckier than a lot of other kids in that it seems to have two happy, stable households in it's life adn the maintenance of that is paramount, IMHO. It would be a shame to destroy all this, which getting into a row as a result over how much to pay in maintenance.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

Also looking at the original post. The child maintenance is paid voluntary, so as it is not under a court order. Therefore I presume you could write to the wife and say you are intending to reduce it given the changed circumstances and the fact that the child is now spending more time with you and see what happens.
I would be interesting to know how circumstances have changed in the intervening months.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

You are paying €300 per month but the child stays with you for half the week and you contribute extra for extra things like clothes, school etc.... The mother presumably pays for things for the child too. So she maintains that it takes over €600 per month to keep the child? €300 from you presumably is half the cost. That seems excessive to me.

Since you are paying for everything during the days the child is with you per week why do you have to pay anything for food or daily expenses while the child is with her? She works and is able to keep a house so why should the father be shouldering the lion's share of the burden. Surely half the money towards medical expenses, school, holidays etc.. is reasonable but I dont see why you should be paying for everything.

Can you sit down with the mother and work out what a month's typical expenses are are excluding food and things that you are already providing when the child is with you? Then agree to pay half or two thirds of the remainder?
 
Re: Child Maintenance

Jan07,
I think you should take homeowners advice, you need to sit down together and discuss this. If the child is spending equal amounts of time in each house then you can disregard, esb,food,heating,mortgage,cars. Its only the stuff like clothes,shoes,school,toys etc that should be counted for. Things that relate specifically for the child including health and money put aside for education. I can totally see jan07 where you are coming from when the childs mother makes you feel like you are paying her. I would definitely see about getting guardianship rights for your dp first.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

I totally understand your frustration about partners paying maintenance. My partner pays E80 per week and his ex has very little involvment with the child. His mother looks after the child mostly, buys her everything she needs and wants. He would love to pay this maintenance to his mother rather than his ex as she goes bingo 3 nights a weeks and up to the birth of her 3rd child she went out 2-3 nights a week too. The child never spends a full day with her 2 half brothers (from her mother). The mother never ever buys her clothes and has never brought her on a holiday and i can only re-call one outing. The list is endless. Because she has the child 3 nights most weeks (even if not during the day), this means the child is resident here and she can get her benefits and maintenance irrespective of who is actually minding the child. I know my partners mother should seek custody or similar but she is old fashioned and thinks courts would disgrace the family. The child's best interests im afraid are not priority. However, back to the point, i dont think this mother deserves the maintenace as the money is clearly not being spent on the child or needs of the child. My sympathy is with the children but i do understand your position Jan07.
 
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Re: Child Maintenance

hi there,

I just want to get some opinion regarding my situation. I am currently paying €300 per month child maintenance for my son 4 who is living abroad with his mother.

To be honest the whole thing is getting ridiculous as i never get to see him, his mom feels that he will get confused if we meet. We were work colleagues and we were never actually together as a couple.

I would be interested in your opinions.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

The Courts Service employed Dr. Carol Coulter to produce a series of reports on family law in Ireland. All family law is in camera and the results are not usually made public therefore it can be difficult to get any statistics.

The reports that Dr. Coulter produced give a snapshot of family law matters in Ireland over the last year and make for very interesting reading.

In particular the [broken link removed]deals with issues of child maintenance. Pages 36 -38 are particularly useful. This is just a sample of some cases in Cork last year.

The reports are not difficult to read and give examples of anonymised situations. I would recommend them for anyone who wants to get an idea of what Family law is like in Ireland.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

what to do said:
hi there,

I just want to get some opinion regarding my situation. I am currently paying €300 per month child maintenance for my son 4 who is living abroad with his mother.

To be honest the whole thing is getting ridiculous as i never get to see him, his mom feels that he will get confused if we meet. We were work colleagues and we were never actually together as a couple.

I would be interested in your opinions.
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Miantenance and access are separate issues but I sympathise with you and the child.

Is the mother in another relationship? Is that why the child might be confused?

It is your duty to help maintain your child, of course you should also see him but the logitical problems are there.

I have a mate who has a daughter though a similar not particulalry romantic entanglement, fortunately the child is still in Ireland albeit on the otehr side of the country. He drives down two or three saturdays every month to see her. It is tough on him but at least the kid calls him daddy.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

I think the best thing to do is to continue giving the €300 per month. children definitely cost more than this amount - food, clothes, schooling, medical expenses, entertainment, hobbies etc.

The best interests of the child should be at heart always and if the child is well looked after and wants for nothing this is the most important thing. I woudn't dream of getting solicitors involved. This will end up in a big fall out and then the child will suffer.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

Margie said:
I think the best thing to do is to continue giving the €300 per month. children definitely cost more than this amount - food, clothes, schooling, medical expenses, entertainment, hobbies etc.
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Margie said:

The best interests of the child should be at heart always and if the child is well looked after and wants for nothing this is the most important thing. I wouldn’t dream of getting solicitors involved. This will end up in a big fall out and then the child will suffer.
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Margie, I think you are absolutely right, 300€ is very little and is not just about the child clothing etc, is also about the living situation, how easy they live the separation or the fights, rent are expensive here in Dublin, esb, gas, the petrol to bring them to school, sports and out and about.

If you follow the link:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/separation-and-divorce/maintenance_orders_and_agreements

Is stated that:

If both parties agree, the amount of maintenance to be paid can be agreed between the parties. If the parties cannot agree on the amount of maintenance to be paid, it will be necessary to apply to the District or Circuit Court, depending on the amount of maintenance that is sought.
At present, the District Court can award any amount up to 500 euro per week for a spouse, (not the case here I suppose) and 150 euro per week for each child. If sums greater than these amounts are being sought, you will need to apply to the Circuit Court.

I have a 5 years old that goes to school and to the crèche because i work full time and the father never collects her or brings her to school.
We both don’t have families here in Dublin that means i have to do 95% for her, to him I ask only to pay the crèche so I can go to work and divide what i buy for her, cloths, shoes etc.

Now he wants to put down the maintenance, can you explain me how will i be able to pay 1000€ rent, 760€ crèche, some food maybe? Some bills? Oh yes my job went down from 5 days to 3 so i lost one week wage... how do you expect a single mum to survive with 300 euro?

I can always stop working and ask rent allowance, child maintenance, child benefits, school benefits, doll... NO, I have my pride... I’ll try my best to survive but i would go to court if i shouldn’t make it with what he has intention to give me.

I could rent a room in the house, the little money would give me some help, but I feel is not right to have a stranger around when i have a small child in the house, i do not think is healthy!

My advice is: seat down, analyze all the expenses for the child, what the mother and the father put extra, and divide it equally between the two of them, and it doesn’t matter if they are married or not or have other children, if they can’t effort to have another child they shouldn’t have anymore. And if there is a 3rd person, maybe a financial adviser, would be better because they are neutral. The family planning office should be able to help you with that.

I use an excel sheet where i write all he gives me and all i give and at the end I try to make it balance!
But it never really balance when we talk about the personal time spent with the child!
And no, nobody pays us to be parents, is a delicate job that last forever!

Sorry if with this mine ill offend someone!
 
Re: Child Maintenance

OP - did you state the age of the child or did i miss it? i have a two year old who has to go to creche in order for me to go to work and financially support us because we're one of them where the father doesn't pay. creche costs are very high - does the child go to creche? if yes, 300 will roughly cover a third of the actual creche fee. if the child goes to school - is it a public one or private one? books aren't cheap, neither are the school uniforms, normal clothes, food etc. if you actually sit down with your partner and just write down how much is spend on a weekly basis on the child (general costs) you will see that € 69 is really not much. as some people stated already here, the average maintanance these days is € 75.

also - this child is very lucky to have both parents who are obviously very commited to give him/ her a happy life regardless of the circumstances so unless you are threatened to lose your job, home, comfortable existence - dont decrease these € 69!
 
Re: Child Maintenance

god how I wish I only had to pay €300 per month for my daughter as a single working mother I earn €500 per week and every penny i get goes on my daughter , crech , food, clothes, toys, outings not to mention paying rent and bills ,it has been 3 months since I have had a night out, my ex gets any access he wants to my daughter (which isnt much) and has never paid me a penny, its grate that Jan 07s partner recognises that he has to support his child and when they have one of their own they will realise that €70 a week does not go very far these days. I should know as i spend €500 every week on supporting my daughter
 
Re: Child Maintenance

I believe 100 euro per week /433 per monthis the average of what a judge would award if you were to contest this. It looks like you are getting off lightly with 300 euro per month.
 
Re: Child Maintenance

Hi. I understand where you are coming from. I have a daughter and am separated from her dad. I am getting 200 euro a month & half of her school costs as maintenance & I have 2 more children with my current partner. My daughters dad is fantastic, he looks after her well, takes her on weekends and holidays, things I cant afford to do for her and gives her the individual attention she deserves.

However 200 euro isnt much each month, it is supposed to cover the childs precentage of rent/esb/heat/medical/food/clothes to mention just a few. I havent had a single week in the school year that I havent gotten a note home looking for money for something or other. You may have his child almost half the time but its his child not yours and I am afraid you are just going to have to butt out. My current partner and father of my two youngest doesnt get involved in the money/relationship issues between my eldest and her dad as its simply not his business, despite having a strong fatherly bond with my daughter and bringing her up like his own.

This is one of those things I am afraid that comes with single parents, we do have baggage and complications, and it can make things tricky in new relationships but if you love your partner you are just going to have to keep out of his and his ex's business. I know it effects you, and it will effect your future together but you arent his daughters mum, you cant dictate where she spends her maintenance. If she needs furnature then she is entitled to spend it on furnature. Its tricky, and I know I'm not very articulate here. If I am honest I have to say I think anyone who helps raise somebodyelses child is amazing (yes you!) and if the shoe was on the other foot I dont know if I could do it.
 
any help please

Hi, I hope someone might be able to help me. My daughter 13 nearly 14, her father has been paying maintenance since she was 6 through a court order. He has since been married and has four other children. The order has never been reviewed, and it is causes alot of tension. He pays 65 euro a week but never helps with any of the big expenses throughout the years. I have always worked and provided the best I can. I don;t think its fair that i should have to pay for everything. It doesnt even work out as ten euro a day. Anyone with children in secondary school know what i am talking about. My question is if i go to court is it likely that i will get any more or shud i just grin and bear it. He is a very difficult man to deal with and will make this as difficult as he can for me. Any advice is greatly appreciated .. thanks
 
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