Cemetery for Catholics only?

mercman said:
pops - sounds familiar. We're both in the same part of the country allright. Send me a PM as to where exactly you are (which parish or town)
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it happens in all parts of the country - id a friend went to a priest in Dublin asking for her son to be baptised and was practically chased out of the presbetery because she is a single mother - she went next door and the priest in there had no problems with it.
 
I'm not saying that all priests are like this, but it doesn't make it easy for 'outsiders' to approach the church about sensitive matters like this when there are a few with such a reputation. I guess there are any rules as such then about who can and can't be buried in these cemetries? Is it possible to buried in a place that isn't a consecrated area for example?
 
pops said:
I'm not saying that all priests are like this, but it doesn't make it easy for 'outsiders' to approach the church about sensitive matters like this when there are a few with such a reputation. I guess there are any rules as such then about who can and can't be buried in these cemetries? Is it possible to buried in a place that isn't a consecrated area for example?
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Yes, it is but if you are to be buried as a Catholic the priest must perform an additional ceremony. You should also own the land. If the cemetary is owned by the Church (which in towns and villages they primarily are, in cities I do not know) then they are entitled to refuse burial in the cemetary. Until recently in my home town all unbaptised children were denied access to the cemetary.
 
Don't wish to sound harsh, but if people make the choice to reject various aspects of e.g. Roman Catholic faith (e.g. mass attendance, baptism of children, church marriage - whatever) should they then reasonably expect a place to be there for them come burial time?

(Not directing this at any particular poster BTW and I'm agnostic myself)
 
s loop. This is what I meant in my post of 11/03. The Jewish people were refused burial in the Christian graveyards years ago and that was that. Up to date situation is that there are a heap more graves in the Jewish Graveyard, for persons that died and people did not realise they actually were Jewish. Reckon it boils down to intermarriage years ago and when they die the Jewish burial Society takes them, no questions asked, as possibly the Christians may well of refused it. I must find out. Anyway the country has moved on in leaps and bounds over the past 10/15 years but unfortunately there are sectors out there who do not and will not facilitate their own, lest alone others. Strange but true.
 
caveat - surely if a person was baptised at birth, they hold a divine right to be buried in a Christian graveyard on death.
 
mercman said:
caveat - surely if a person was baptised at birth, they hold a divine right to be buried in a Christian graveyard on death.
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Even if they subsequently reject that same church and it's teachings?

It's more of a question of integrity I think. Maybe theologically, they have a right but do they have a moral right?

Because it's a sombre subject and obviously emotional, it's difficult to be coldly objective about it but really, if this were applied to other situations/societies/organisations could people avail of their services when it suited them but reject their doctrine in all other cases?

Anyway, this is OT really - apologies
 
Caveat said:
Don't wish to sound harsh, but if people make the choice to reject various aspects of e.g. Roman Catholic faith (e.g. mass attendance, baptism of children, church marriage - whatever) should they then reasonably expect a place to be there for them come burial time?

(Not directing this at any particular poster BTW and I'm agnostic myself)
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I think the issue isn't that non-Catholics are excluded from the cemetries but that (as with education) the Catholic church have a near monopoloy on burial grounds and there are few other options available for the many people who aren't catholic.
 
I realise that Nige - but I was making a more general, related point - but as I said , a bit off topic - sorry.
 
Caveat said:
Even if they subsequently reject that same church and it's teachings?

It's more of a question of integrity I think. Maybe theologically, they have a right but do they have a moral right?
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If the Catholic Church makes it so hard to leave the Church while one is alive (ex-communication is rather rare), it seems a bit rich that they feel they can kick you out when you are dead.
 
Caveat said:
Don't wish to sound harsh, but if people make the choice to reject various aspects of e.g. Roman Catholic faith (e.g. mass attendance, baptism of children, church marriage - whatever) should they then reasonably expect a place to be there for them come burial time?

(Not directing this at any particular poster BTW and I'm agnostic myself)
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I agree with this post - if you are not a practising Catholic then why should you be entitled to be buried in a Catholic graveyard? But the point of the OPs post is just that - they are NOT Catholic - so what choices are going to be available to them upon death?
If they dont live near a local authority graveyard then they may have to be buried a long way from their home making things awkward for family to maintain/visit the grave.

I think that the unfortunate truth of it is that this country is predominantly Catholic and the church and state are still far too closely linked on some issues, like burial and education - to allow for many other options.
 
Well my point of view is this. My grandparents bought a plot in a nice part (like the residents would notice) of Mount Argus cemetary in the 1980's for something like 5 to 10 grand. Is'nt this cemetary connected to the adjacent Catholic church ?
Now after paying for this plot and owning it how can someone tell us who can and cant be buried there , regardless of religion ?
 
stir crazy said:
Well my point of view is this. My grandparents bought a plot in a nice part (like the residents would notice) of Mount Argus cemetary in the 1980's for something like 5 to 10 grand. Is'nt this cemetary connected to the adjacent Catholic church ?
Now after paying for this plot and owning it how can someone tell us who can and cant be buried there , regardless of religion ?
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a bit of a side issue - but wonder would they have been allowed buy it if they werent catholic themselves (or perhaps they arent - please correct me if Im wrong).
in that case the catholic church probably think 'well you gotta promise to bring the kids up catholic if you have a catholic ceremnony so anyone getting buried there in the next couple of generations are probably catholic'?
 
truthseeker said:
a bit of a side issue - but wonder would they have been allowed buy it if they werent catholic themselves (or perhaps they arent - please correct me if Im wrong).
i
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They were definitely Catholic. They did everything by the book, so much so that my Gran spent half her life savings (working 3 jobs for years) at the time to bury Grandad. I'm not sure what form the ownership of the plot exists in. I just know at least 5 grand was spent back in the early 80's when it was a lot more money than it is now. The whole funeral expenses etc came to twice that. This was old money too. Not Euros.


(Probably a good off topic aside comment is what a money making racket it has to be. If the Church wanted to improve its green credentials it should publish a paper congratulating those who get cremated as conserving precious land resources (burying Brass handles etc) and therefore being less 'sinful'.)
 
stir crazy said:
They were definitely Catholic. They did everything by the book, so much so that my Gran spent half her life savings (working 3 jobs for years) at the time to bury Grandad. I'm not sure what form the ownership of the plot exists in. I just know at least 5 grand was spent back in the early 80's when it was a lot more money than it is now. The whole funeral expenses etc came to twice that. This was old money too. Not Euros.


(Probably a good off topic aside comment is what a money making racket it has to be. If the Church wanted to improve its green credentials it should publish a paper congratulating those who get cremated as conserving precious land resources (burying Brass handles etc) and therefore being less 'sinful'.)
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so when you buy a plot do you have 'ownership' of the land and hence be allowed bury whoever you like there of whatever religion i wonder? i dont know the answer to that one but the church may raise an eyebrow if you say you want to use the plot for burial without a catholic ceremony - we really need a rep for the catholic church on this thread to set us straight!

totally agree with you about 'green credentials' - but then again promoting no contraception in countries with AIDS epidemics is not a good idea either and it happens.
 
Superman said:
If the Catholic Church makes it so hard to leave the Church while one is alive (ex-communication is rather rare),
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They did not even kick out Hitler or Mussolini, and they were both Catholics.
 
Good Point Rabbit. So if one is baptised but chooses not to practice their religion, they are placed in a lessor or worser position than does who do wrong.
 
truthseeker said:
so when you buy a plot do you have 'ownership' of the land and hence be allowed bury whoever you like there of whatever religion i wonder? i dont know the answer to that one but the church may raise an eyebrow if you say you want to use the plot for burial without a catholic ceremony - we really need a rep for the catholic church on this thread to set us straight!

totally agree with you about 'green credentials' - but then again promoting no contraception in countries with AIDS epidemics is not a good idea either and it happens.
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When you buy a family plot you don't 'own' the grave you have the use of it. If anyone is stuck for a last resting place having lived the athiestic high-life the newest (non-denominational) solution is a green burial with a 'wrapper' of hessian or a simple recycled compressed paper coffin, all in the field or wood of your choice with a tree planted on top if you wish. We discussed this on AAM some years ago. I put some contact details for Irish green burials.

As long as you don't bury a corpse adjacent to the human water supply system you can legally dispose of remains anywhere, including your own back garden.
 
Marie, No you can't. They brought laws in a few years ago to stop that kind of thing. In Ireland, Burials of humans are only allowed in designated areas
 
mercman said:
They brought laws in a few years ago to stop that kind of thing.
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Many years ago, actually. There was a particular controversy about one such case well over a decade ago where a family were not allowed bury someone on their own land.
 
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