Can bullying "tenants" claim adverse possession on my grand uncle's 1ac garden?

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roball

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My granduncle lives in a cottage and has a large garden to the rear (less than 1 acre in total including house).

Approx 4 years ago a man called and asked if he could rent the garden to graze his horses unfortunately my granduncle said yes. They paid him €30 for the year and moved in their horses since that time they've completely taken over, parking in his drive, coming and going as they please, putting up gates, making my granduncle feel uneasy in his own home.

His house is in a state of disrepair and approx. 2 years the council approved a grant to have his house fixed however the builder who was carrying out the repairs would not start until the tenants had moved their horses out.

The tenants concerned were contacted and they kept delaying and eventually refused to move. Unfortunately the grant has expired so if he’s to get his house repaired he’s to apply again.

They at one stage offered to purchase the garden for a ridiculous amount of money, he said no and coincidentally a few days later his windows were broken in. This incident was reported to the police however you can’t blame anyone if you haven’t witnessed the crime.

My granduncle sent the tenants a solicitors letter to move out however they responded saying they’d been there 14 years and they wanted compensation to move. The solicitor told him if he could get witnesses saying they were only there 4 years he could get them out however understandably no neighbour will go as a witness as the tenants are from a large family.

Also it costs €4,000 to take them to court and my granduncle does not have this kind of money. He basically can’t afford to pay a solicitor or pay compensation to move them out.

Can anyone give advise in this situation, can someone claim adverse possession on someone's garden?
 
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Re: Adverse Possession

Sorry to hear of his trouble. I'm not a legal expert, but afaik, they can't claim adverse possession if there has been a rental agreement in place. Adverse possession only occurs where the owner does NOT give permission for the squatter to be on the land/property.
 
Re: Adverse Possession

Thanks a million for your reply but they are claiming that they weren't paying rent and unfortunately no written rental agreement was signed. My granduncle is in his 70's and it was just a verbal agreement.
 
Re: Adverse Possession

Complainer said:
Sorry to hear of his trouble. I'm not a legal expert, but afaik, they can't claim adverse possession if there has been a rental agreement in place. Adverse possession only occurs where the owner does NOT give permission for the squatter to be on the land/property.
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Has /had the rental agreement expired though?

Did the uncle contuinue to allow these people on the land after the expiry of rental agreement?

If he contuined to allow them to live on the land ,and did not request some rent from them,nor tried to stop them from being on the land,I understand that adverse possesion can be claimed,ie;squatters rights.
 
Re: Adverse Possession

thedaras said:
Has /had the rental agreement expired though?

Did the uncle contuinue to allow these people on the land after the expiry of rental agreement?...
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You seem to have missed key information given by OP.
thedaras said:
... I understand that adverse possesion can be claimed,ie;squatters rights.
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Based on information given by OP your understanding seems incorrect.
 
Re: Adverse Possession

1. They were there on permission because of the rental agreement - that's not adverse possession
2. They used it for grazing horses - it's established law that this is insufficient use to amount to adverse possession


So no, based on the facts as you've presented, they cannot claim adverse possession even if they were there 14 years.
 
Re: Adverse Possession

The law will not help someone like your granduncle because he does not have the money to take a case against these people.

The council/gardai/councillors also cannot help as they will say it is a 'civil' matter.

The only way to deal with this is to stand up to the bullies. Is there a large visible number of male relations who can take it upon themselves to maintain a visible presence at his house? If so, then I would send these people a warning letter giving them X amount of days to remove the animals. If they do not then remove them yourselves and bring them safely somewhere else- to the 'tenants' property.

Then remove all gates/fences, break down the ditches if necessary, so that they cannot keep animals there safely. Continue to maintain a visible presence, get him a guard dog if necessary. Install cameras and sensor lights. If they try to put up a fence, take it down immediately.

Unless you and your family are going to help him in this there is no point in even starting.
 
Re: Adverse Possession

mathepac said:
You seem to have missed key information given by OP.
Based on information given by OP your understanding seems incorrect.
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OP
Thanks a million for your reply but they are claiming that they weren't paying rent and unfortunately no written rental agreement was signed. My granduncle is in his 70's and it was just a verbal agreement
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.

What part are you suggesting I missed?

Not worth the paper its NOT written on comes to mind..
 
Re: Adverse Possession

Adverse possession takes 12 years in Ireland , so no matter what the other facts they can't claim that.

What would be legal position here if he release the animals himself ?

I presume one can remove unwanted animals from your land , and the people involved claim they don't have a lease or any right to be on the land.
 
Re: Adverse Possession

Thank you for your replies, they are saying they are in his land 14 years whereas in fact they're only there 4 years. They paid rent for 2 years and after that time they were told to leave. So it's basically there word against my granduncles.

It seems from the replies above he only has 2 options 1. stand up to them (unfortuntely wouldn't even attempt to do that) or 2. take them to court (he doesn't have the money).
 
Re: Adverse Possession

What does grazing rights entail how does it differ to adverse possession in this case.
 
Only one other thing he can do- let the land to someone tougher than present occupants. Give it to someone else at a knockdown price- for nothing if necessary ( but make sure to get a caretakers or letting agreement drawn up) on condition they get the others out.

As for grazing- while j26 is right, if these guys are willing to lie about the time they are in there, they will more than likely also be willing to lie about what they have used it for...
 
Re: Adverse Possession

Another point I forgot to mention, they've also sectioned off part of his garden for cutting wood etc, is there a legal reason why they've done this i.e. be able to claim adverse poccession instead of grazing rights.
 
Thank you for your replies, they are saying they are in his land 14 years whereas in fact they're only there 4 years. They paid rent for 2 years and after that time they were told to leave. So it's basically there word against my granduncles.
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A person claiming adverse possession has to prove it beyond doubt - the onus of proof is on the tenants not your granduncle. It's impossible to prove something that didnt happen.

Horse etc. are regarded as property. What way would e.g. a multistory carpark, storage company etc. deal with property that has been left on their premises beyond the agreed time and/or hasnt been paid for? I assume your granduncle can deal with the horses the same way?
 
Have you considered going to the press with this? I think there would be a fair outcry from the public given that an elderly man is being bullied on his own property.

I'll bet in the US, your granduncle would have the right to shoot them... We're too bloody soft on bullies here...
 
Firstly Adverse Possession is not a runner here.

Secondly there are grounds to make a criminal complaint to the Gardai (which wont cost your Uncle any money) to have these people removed.

The most practical piece of legislation available to your uncle without having to go to the civil court route vis a vis seeking an injunction and thereafter seeking to enforce it is:

Part 2 (A) Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 ans inserted by Section 24 Housing (Miscellaneous) Provisions Act 2002

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0009/sec0024.html#partiii-sec24

Read through the legislation (the important bits are 19C onwards), I would strongly advise going to a solicitor and having him/her advise you and your uncle on presenting the complaint to the Garda. The Gardai sometimes try to say it's a civil matter and there is nothing they can do, dont be tricked into this. They can act and are statutory bound to once a complaint is made as per this legislation.

In addition the Prohibition of Forcibile Entry and Occupation Act 1971 (Criminal law) is also applicable and something the Gardai can consider too but the Law above is more practical in this context.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1971/en/act/pub/0025/index.html


Good luck.
 
Thanks McCrack for your information, I read through the acts and it refers to entry without the owners consent. In my granduncles situation they had his consent as he agreed to initially rent the land to them. Would this exclude my granduncle from this act as he initially gave them entry eventhough he now wants them out.
 
No there's no difficulty in that respect because this arrangement was an ad hoc one with no tenancy express or implied (as far as I can tell).

Your uncle expressly through his solicitor revoked these people's permission to occupy his land so they are on notice from that point that they are trespassing.

Therefore there is no misunderstanding as to rights.

I can't emphasis this enough but be sure your uncle is professionally represented by a solicitor when contacting the local Garda to make an official complaint. I've come across this type of situation in a professional capacity before (regarding travellers) occupying land. The Gardai I've found to be unaware of the legislation I quoted and as a result you may find them saying they are powerless when in fact they are not.
 
He wants them out. Get him to the Garda Station to make a complaint.

For God's sake they've even invaded his garden!

They are down and out right bullies and are scamming him.

Get him to the station first thing tomorrow.

And the nest call after that ... the solicitor!
 
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