Builders sue buyers to complete contracts

foxylady

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Foxy, i have spoken to you about this previously in another thread & to be honest i feel you have agreat case at the moment!! Im not a solicitor but if i was to buy a pair of jeans/ furniture/ food i would expect it to be delivered in a timely fashion & this should be the case with buying a home. After all you could feasibly in your second home at this stage if laragans built your apartment on time!!

Developers are being generalised against beacause they are all the same, granted there are some exceptions but most of them have made there millions & are now screwing people for more money!

As foxy knows, i bought an apartment in carrickmines off the plans 3 years ago, when built they had overlooked putting a window in the bathroom which was on the plans. I refused to snag until this was complete. They told me that this was a mistake & there was not supposed to be on the building even though it was on both the brochure & my contract. Initially i was happy to move in if they had put the window in or offered a discount but they basically ignored all correspondants so once the 18 month contract was up I opted to pull out. This was again ignored. It has gotten to the stage where i have had a district court date scheduled a couple of weeks ago, we cancelled this on the notice that the developer was preparing an offer, this offer has not yet been recieved so we are now persuing a date in the circuit court!

The developer will now have to pay solicitor fees, barristor fees, interest & goodwill payments if i am successful in court when they could have still made the sale albeit for a 5,000 euro discount! All this due to their utter greed!

Are u in court anytime soon as I would love to find out the coutcome. On another note the homebond policys have time limits and in most people cases have lapsed.
 

ben10

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As far as my solicitor is concerned the bond is still effective, the bond is different to the homebond which is a structural insurance usually over 10 years. The bond is to insure against the builder closing up before completion.
I have not yet got a date for the circuit court, though we applied about 2 weeks ago so it should be soon. My solicitor wants me to meet the barrister next week! it just seems to be dragging on & on but i am determined not to allow them get away with this considering they are sueing other buyers for not completing!
 

foxylady

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Ben10
My solicitor said if we took them to court, it would be the high court and would take at least a year to get there if not longer so this kinda put me off as its dragged on long enough. What is the other bond you are talking about?
 
C

carrickingup

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They want me to complete and are suing me because I am claiming three years is a monstrous time to wait and by their delay I have suffered the loss of value in the building.
 

mf1

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"by their delay I have suffered the loss of value in the building. "

I have posted on this thread and similar threads before. I can't help getting the feeling that a lot of "purchasers" just don't get it. Feelings and emotions and random thought processes don't cut it in a Court of Law. The above statement is a classic example of a random thought process: it sounds good, I can appreciate the feeling but there is no basis in law for the statement. It is not a defence to the developers action. It is a " this is not fair" sort of thing.

I imagine that all of the "purchasers" have probably heard the same advice from their own solicitors but are still hoping that somebody, somewhere is going to get them out of this mess. It is a mess but the best thing to do is to educate yourselves and do your best in difficult circumstances. The mess is horribly compounded by the global downturn and the financial difficulties of at least one developer.

mf
 

foxylady

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"by their delay I have suffered the loss of value in the building. "

I have posted on this thread and similar threads before. I can't help getting the feeling that a lot of "purchasers" just don't get it. Feelings and emotions and random thought processes don't cut it in a Court of Law. The above statement is a classic example of a random thought process: it sounds good, I can appreciate the feeling but there is no basis in law for the statement. It is not a defence to the developers action. It is a " this is not fair" sort of thing.

I imagine that all of the "purchasers" have probably heard the same advice from their own solicitors but are still hoping that somebody, somewhere is going to get them out of this mess. It is a mess but the best thing to do is to educate yourselves and do your best in difficult circumstances. The mess is horribly compounded by the global downturn and the financial difficulties of at least one developer.

mf
How do people educate themselves and their best in the scenarios like this where propety is not even built after 3 years and builders going bust, also what exactly does cut it in a court of law when completion dates are completely ignored by the builders along with everything else that doesnt suit them.
 

Bronte

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They want me to complete and are suing me because I am claiming three years is a monstrous time to wait and by their delay I have suffered the loss of value in the building.
Can you clarify if the banks will give you a mortgage, if not why not? What was in your original contract as to completion date? I ask this because you seem to be implying that the reason you want out of the contact is because the property value has decreased.
 

Bronte

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Can you clarify if the banks will give you a mortgage, if not why not? What was in your original contract as to completion date? I ask this because you seem to be implying that the reason you want out of the contact is because the property value has decreased. What has your solicitor advised you.
 

mf1

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How do people educate themselves and their best in the scenarios like this where propety is not even built after 3 years and builders going bust, also what exactly does cut it in a court of law when completion dates are completely ignored by the builders along with everything else that doesnt suit them.
Have you read your contractand building agreement from start to finish?
Have you highlighted all sections that you need clarification on? Have you asked for clarification? Have you read all the correspondence that has passed between your solicitor and the other side? Do you know and understand the argument(s) ( technical or otherwise) that the developer is using? Do you know the answer to that argument(s)? Do you understand your own contractual position? Do you understand the risks of any legal action? Do you appreciate that it seems your developer is in financial difficulties and that pressure may be being brought to bear by his financial position?

Have you tried reading a book specifically on conveyancing and contracts? To truly understand the intricacies?

Your case seems difficult and that is unfortunate but there is a lot of it around.

mf
 

ben10

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Ben10
My solicitor said if we took them to court, it would be the high court and would take at least a year to get there if not longer so this kinda put me off as its dragged on long enough. What is the other bond you are talking about?
Im not entirely sure what the bond entitles you to, it was my father who made sure i asked my solicitor if the property was bonded. The solicitor said he would not let anyone go through with a sale without it!!
Apparently it insures against you loosing your deposit should the builder close before completion. Its worth asking your solicitor about!! However, Im sure if it held much water your solicitor would have looked into it by now!?!

If you are going to the high court you must still go through the normal processes of district courts, circuit courts etc. My hope is that once we have a date for the circuit court the developer will decide they dont want the publicity & pay out!! ....wishful thinking, i know but i will go all the way with this. I see it as a game of poker, one which i am determined to win!!
 

foxylady

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Have you read your contractand building agreement from start to finish?
Have you highlighted all sections that you need clarification on? Have you asked for clarification? Have you read all the correspondence that has passed between your solicitor and the other side? Do you know and understand the argument(s) ( technical or otherwise) that the developer is using? Do you know the answer to that argument(s)? Do you understand your own contractual position? Do you understand the risks of any legal action? Do you appreciate that it seems your developer is in financial difficulties and that pressure may be being brought to bear by his financial position?

Have you tried reading a book specifically on conveyancing and contracts? To truly understand the intricacies?

Your case seems difficult and that is unfortunate but there is a lot of it around.

mf

Initially we were told contract was straight forward all above board so we signed. Comp date was 18 months

Hardly any correspondence has passed from solicitor to solicitor unless it was querIes I had. I know devleopeer is in finacial diffiuclties but it would seem this has been the case for some time hence all the delays but there is no good reason that I can see that I should be expected to wait around for the rest of my life for this to be built just because they are having these problems.

Contracts in this country dont sem to offer proper protection for the purchasers and this needs to be addressed
 

bond-007

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It will be interesting to see if these builders will manage to obtain any judgements in the courts.
 

mf1

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It will be interesting to see if these builders will manage to obtain any judgements in the courts.
All the cases are likely to be quite different - people who don't want to close on signed contracts where property is completed but value has dropped and they can't raise finance, those who can raise finance but don't want to pay it, those where properties are unfinished or snagging is an issue for whatever reason etc.,etc.

I'd say its more than likely that judgments will be handed out. The alternative is that the developers woes just deepen even further and every chancer will use a judgment adverse to the developer to try and get out of their responsibilities.

Not every purchaser is in financial difficulties. But every single one of them would rather not complete.

mf
 

dtwhaler

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What about when there is a clause in the contract that the builder cant or wont meet. No response or amendment to the contract.

Does the contract become null and void then ? Shouldnt they just hand back the deposit then ?
 

mf1

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What about when there is a clause in the contract that the builder cant or wont meet. No response or amendment to the contract.

Does the contract become null and void then ? Shouldnt they just hand back the deposit then ?
You can't just take statements like that and hope for a straightforward answer!

You have to look at the whole particular individual situation. Without the entire situation laid out, the different sides, the different pressures, the rationales for each sides behaviour and a detailed analysis of the position, the question is meaningless. Its just a Joe Duffy programme style rant. No balance.

mf
 

FKH

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As a solicitor as far as I can see one of the few grounds that purchasers may have to argue is that the property was not completed on time (if the contract has a time limit). The builder's defence to this is that there was a delay reasonably outside their control which delayed building. However it would need a court to decide whether the builder's reason was indeed reasonably outside their control or not and make a judgment accordingly.

It is a little unrealistic in the current climate to expect the builder simply to return the deposit once the time limit elapses with simply a letter requesting same. It may be necessary to instigate court proceedings for return.

Where the time limit hasn't expired it is very difficult for the purchaser as a binding agreement exists despite the fact that they may not be able to raise the finance. However a court judgment will not remedy this problem for the builder as even if they get an order against the purchaser they will not be able to purchaser the property and I have heard rumours that it is the banks that are putting pressure on the builders to bring these cases to court and get judgment.
 

AlbacoreA

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As ...It is a little unrealistic in the current climate to expect the builder simply to return the deposit once the time limit elapses with simply a letter requesting same. It may be necessary to instigate court proceedings for return.....
Why not. That would seem black and white.
 

Bronte

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Why not. That would seem black and white.
Not if the builder has spent the money on the site/building costs/loan repayments etc.

It would have been easier if in the first place the deposit was kept by the builder's solicitor rather than being handed over to the builder but apparently this didn't happen during the boom when builders were able to dictate terms and buyers happily signed up to same.
 

AlbacoreA

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In the context of people wanting out of their contracts, and their deposits back. If the builder can't even pay back the deposit its not very likely they'll ever build the property in the contract. So in that case the builder is effectively bankrupt no? That seems black and white to me. Thats the builder can't pay back the deposit is a different issue if related. Of course the legal costs in recovering the deposit are likely to exceed the deposit, so many might see being no point in going down that route. But if theres no time limit on the contract, whats to stop the builder building the property in 10 yrs time and then come looking to complete the contract.

My understanding that contracts for building commercial property usually have time limits and penalty clauses for late completion, for some reason most residential building contracts don't. Unless its a self build.
 

foxylady

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As a solicitor as far as I can see one of the few grounds that purchasers may have to argue is that the property was not completed on time (if the contract has a time limit). The builder's defence to this is that there was a delay reasonably outside their control which delayed building. However it would need a court to decide whether the builder's reason was indeed reasonably outside their control or not and make a judgment accordingly.

It is a little unrealistic in the current climate to expect the builder simply to return the deposit once the time limit elapses with simply a letter requesting same. It may be necessary to instigate court proceedings for return.

Where the time limit hasn't expired it is very difficult for the purchaser as a binding agreement exists despite the fact that they may not be able to raise the finance. However a court judgment will not remedy this problem for the builder as even if they get an order against the purchaser they will not be able to purchaser the property and I have heard rumours that it is the banks that are putting pressure on the builders to bring these cases to court and get judgment.
What exactly do judges consider as reasonable delays or does anyone know?
 
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