Brian cowen still facing hostility over large pension, unfair

TheBigShort said:
Instead what we have is a glut of fly-by-night landlords who bought a second property thinking it would finance their pensions after 30yrs when the mortgage is paid off by charging extortionate rents on ordinary working people who can barely keep their heads above water.
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These "fly-by-night" landlords are leaving the market or renting out via airbnb

New, professional landlords are entering such as Irish Life:

Irish Life Investment Managers (ILIM) has bought 262 apartments in south Dublin that were due to be put up for sale and the asset manager plans to rent them.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...-south-dublin-apartments-for-rental-1.3492279

Given the small size of the Dublin market, I would comfortably expect a few large, professional landlords buying / building many blocks outright with the sole purpose of renting them out. These landlords will have all the resources they need to ensure the make the highest return...something the "fly-by-night" landlords do not enjoy. I would expect higher prices and less security for tenants.
 
TheBigShort said:
Where there is no benefit to a tax credit or tax refund, offer a grant equivalent to the tax refund...its not that hard to resolve, is it?
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So first of all you give someone a place at a vastly reduced price compared to what they would have to pay if they paid for it themselves and then in order to move them somewhere more suitable you give them even more money?

In case you haven't figured out by now, money doesn't grow on trees, so to fund this policy initiative would you mind outlining where resources would be taken from?
 
Firefly said:
If that is the case then tax credits or tax refunds aren't going to be much of an incentive are they?
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I'd like all welfare and benefits paid in the form of refundable tax credits. It is far simpler and more efficient and should reduce the administrative overhead on the State significantly over the medium term.
 
Firefly said:
And there are far too many of them!!
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Yep, and none of them ended up that way because they are smarter or work harder than you. It's all because of the capitalist system and the social injustice it produces. The Jews or the Lizard people are, in turn, probably behind that system.
 
Firefly said:
So first of all you give someone a place at a vastly reduced price compared to what they would have to pay if they paid for it themselves and then in order to move them somewhere more suitable you give them even more money?

In case you haven't figured out by now, money doesn't grow on trees, so to fund this policy initiative would you mind outlining where resources would be taken from?
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The resources that would have otherwise been spent on your 5yr plan to assess housing, the staff, the legislation to support it, the cost of employing bouncers to enact the evictions, the court appeals and the pay for the judges , barristers etc.

Here is a couple of headlines to show some of the difficulties being faced without having to pay for some Big Brother type scheme dictating where people can live.


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/almost-one-third-of-families-refusing-social-housing-were-homeless-1.3414714


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/inadequate-council-houses-breach-rights-of-tenants-1.3265050

I think my system would be more efficient, cost -effective and satisfactory all round, especially if it extends to the private sector where the vast bulk of under-occupancy exists, don't you?
 
From your link; "Inadequate council houses ‘breach rights of tenants’".
See that's why people in the private rental sector get annoyed with the whinging nanny-state BS from Housing organisations. I've had problems with mould in my rented house. I bought mould-spray and cleared it up and made sure the kids opened their bedroom windows regularly.
I've had problems with rats, killings a few in traps in my kitchen. I told my landlord and he got Rentokill out. I did some work plugging holes and lined and plastered some old cupboards.
 
Purple said:
I've had problems with mould in my rented house. I bought mould-spray and cleared it up and made sure the kids opened their bedroom windows regularly.
I've had problems with rats, killings a few in traps in my kitchen. I told my landlord and he got Rentokill out. I did some work plugging holes and lined and plastered some old cupboards.
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Really? Is this the standard that can be expected in the private rental market? Is this the standard of the ‘market rate’? Rats and mould?
I know you are paying below market rate, but that explains it somewhat.
 
TheBigShort said:
The resources that would have otherwise been spent on your 5yr plan to assess housing, the staff, the legislation to support it, the cost of employing bouncers to enact the evictions, the court appeals and the pay for the judges , barristers etc.
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Not evictions in my book. Someone gets a house for a huge discount for a period of say 5 years and at the end of this they are assessed compared to others on the waiting list. If there is someone else more deserving the occupant vacates.


TheBigShort said:
I think my system would be more efficient, cost -effective and satisfactory all round, especially if it extends to the private sector where the vast bulk of under-occupancy exists, don't you?
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I honestly don't know regarding the cost, but the current model of getting a place for life instills a culture of dependency.
 
Firefly said:
Not evictions in my book. Someone gets a house for a huge discount for a period of say 5 years and at the end of this they are assessed compared to others on the waiting list. If there is someone else more deserving the occupant vacates.
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Yeh, we have been through this before. How do you get the 'less deserving' occupant to vacate? What is the criteria for 'more' or 'less' deserving? Is it a simple calculation on the availability of rooms against the number of occupants? What if the homeless family refuse the accommodation?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...fusing-social-housing-were-homeless-1.3414714

Where does the evicted, sorry...'vacating' party go? Don't forget its a housing crisis we have? Into a hostel? Do they have a right to appeal? What if they are working and paying rent and taxes and have raised a family of their own? Is there any consideration for that? Is an unemployed single mother with two kids more or less deserving than a working single mother of one child? What mechanism will be in place to decide all of this?

These, and the dozens upon dozens of questions and scenarios that, for the umpteenth time I repeat, will simply get bogged down in an administrative, legal and subsequently political quagmire costing far more than it could possibly ever save and worse, getting nowhere to resolve the problem - its would be a waste of time and that is why no civilized country has any such measures in place.

Firefly said:
I honestly don't know regarding the cost, but the current model of getting a place for life instills a culture of dependency.
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You should back this up with facts at some point. People in social housing are no more dependent than you are. The amenities available to you, all of us, did not suddenly appear on foot of you starting to pay tax. There are layers, upon layers of generational graft and knowledge, learning and intellect, that provides us with the standard of living that we have. Your individual taxes (and mine) are inconsequential by themselves. People who work for low-incomes living in social housing are no more dependent on the State than are the employers who pay them low wages to remain competitive and stay in business.
 
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TheBigShort said:
I know you are paying below market rate, but that explains it somewhat.
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It does indeed; I fix things so it costs him less so he charges me less. Everyone's happy. I'd like a nicer house but I can't afford one and I don't expect anyone else to provide one for me as I'm an able bodied adult and so I'm responsible for providing for myself and I certainly don't expect others to subsidise my lifestyle. I know that's not an attitude you approve of but for me it comes down to self respect.
I honestly don't know how people on good incomes living in subsidised housing can look at themselves in the mirror.
 
TheBigShort said:
Yeh, we have been through this before. How do you get the 'less deserving' occupant to vacate? What is the criteria for 'more' or 'less' deserving? Is it a simple calculation on the availability of rooms against the number of occupants? What if the homeless family refuse the accommodation?
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There you go again; you are attempting to invalidate a general point, a policy, by asking the poster to provide every minute detail of how it would be implemented. It's utterly childish to behave like that.
 
Purple said:
There you go again; you are attempting to invalidate a general point, a policy, by asking the poster to provide every minute detail of how it would be implemented. It's utterly childish to behave like that.
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You are kidding right? Every minute detail?
It would be good if at least some detail...any detail...at all to the questions I have asked several times at this point.
One simple, obvious question, is where will the 'vacating' party go? It never gets answered. So from the get-go it is a bog-toilet notion of no value.
Perhaps, that no other developed nation on earth has such a scheme is probably the best indicator to its value?
 
Purple said:
I'd like a nicer house but I can't afford one and I don't expect anyone else to provide one for me as I'm an able bodied adult and so I'm responsible for providing for myself and I certainly don't expect others to subsidise my lifestyle.
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That's an attitude I approve of.
 
Purple said:
Rubbish.
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Well if someone living on minimum wage full-time is earning €20,000, they are contributing to the economy through VAT when they spend, typically, near 100% of that income. If they pay Rent Differential (say a further €500 pa). That's about €3,000 a year that returns out of €20,000 income back to the state each year.
Depending on who you listen to, the cost of a 3 bed house is €180-€330k to construct. Taking the €330k cost, and considering the property will plausibly last 100yrs (minimum), then that works out at a cost of €3,300 pa for the State.
So a social housing tenant that is working minimum wage is reliant on the state to the tune of about €300 a year, for housing. Between 2million tax payers that works out at the princely sum each to be about €0.00015c per year for you per year. With some 150,000 local authority housing that costs about €22.50 per year each to provide housing to thousands of people and families who need shelter.
Even if you were to double that to include maintenance and repairs over the 100yrs it is still a paltry amount.
Can you cope with that? Is this what gets you up on your high horse?

On the otherhand, someone earning €80,000k who can well afford to pay for their own place would be paying a lot more in income tax, USC, and Rent Differential. They would be paying far in excess of what it costs the State to provide the house. There is no subsidy here. For this they get to live in local authority housing, which one third of homeless refuse to live in (so high is the quality of the housing and standard of living) paying in excess of the cost of the house and they get nothing in return.
 
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