Brian cowen still facing hostility over large pension, unfair

Purple said:
Are you of the view that people should only be entitled to voice their opinion about a problem if they can also offer a detailed solution to that problem. If so then should we all keep quiet about Syria, Climate change, Inequality, the Global Financial Crisis and just about everything else?
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TheBigShort said:
I'm not sure what you are talking about here?
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Really?
You continuously insisted that anyone voicing their concerns about an issue must come up with a solution to the problem at the same time. I was pointing out how silly that is.

TheBigShort said:
For instance, you have stated that homeless families is as a result of mismanagement of our housing stock...this is clearly an absurd statement.
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No, I've pointed out that if we improve the management of our housing stock by less than 1.5% we will be able to house all the homeless families we have. Of course then we'll just end up with more homeless families as people game the system to jump the housing list. Eventually the State will provide houses for all the "wurkers", paid for by taxing "the Rich" and everything will be fine.

TheBigShort said:
That is all, I totally accept everyone has the right to voice their opinions, but in doing so it would help if there was a modicum of factual evidence to substantiate it.
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I agree. Try it.

TheBigShort said:
Or at least that is how I interpreted your comment.
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I think you should think again.
 
Purple said:
You continuously insisted that anyone voicing their concerns about an issue must come up with a solution to the problem at the same time.
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No I don’t.
Anyone voicing their concerns are fully entitled to do so. Its when they outline their proposed solutions to those concerns I merely point out how, from the get-go, those proposed solutions wont work.

Purple said:
I've pointed out that if we improve the management of our housing stock by less than 1.5% we will be able to house all the homeless families we have.
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What proposals do you have to ‘improve’ the management of housing stock by 1.5%? Bearing in mind, according to this article, its not just Ireland that is in a crisis with housing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ort-exposes-europes-escalating-housing-crisis

(btw that’s not insisting you come up with a solution, that’s just asking a simple follow on question to the comment you made. Its quite possible that when you give your proposal that I may disagree with it.)
 
TheBigShort said:
No I don’t.
Anyone voicing their concerns are fully entitled to do so. Its when they outline their proposed solutions to those concerns I merely point out how, from the get-go, those proposed solutions wont work.



What proposals do you have to ‘improve’ the management of housing stock by 1.5%? Bearing in mind, according to this article, its not just Ireland that is in a crisis with housing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ort-exposes-europes-escalating-housing-crisis

(btw that’s not insisting you come up with a solution, that’s just asking a simple follow on question to the comment you made. Its quite possible that when you give your proposal that I may disagree with it.)
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Ha! :D
You just can't resist, can you?
 
TheBigShort said:
I have, same conclusion – according to you, the housing crisis is due to the mismanagement of our housing stock. I disagree.
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No, you are incorrect. Try again. Slowly this time. Maybe take off the pinko-tinted glasses.
 
Purple said:
You just can't resist, can you?
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Absolutely.

A housing crisis is being reported in capital and major cities across the developed world, from Dublin, London, Edinburgh, Paris, Toronto, Sydney, Melbourne, Munich, New York, Los Angeles, Tokyo and more….with knock on effects of increasing homelessness and/or house price bubbles excluding working people from owning their own homes.

Along you come with a notion, that has something to do with managing 1.5% of our housing stock better, that according to you, will “be able to house all of the homelessness”.

I have to say I find this intriguing. Could the answer to the housing crisis be at the tips of your fingers? Perhaps your proposal could be used internationally to resolve the crisis abroad in other major cities?

Please, please don’t keep this magic formula all to yourself. Please share.
 
TheBigShort said:
Along you come with a notion, that has something to do with managing 1.5% of our housing stock better, that according to you, will “be able to house all of the homelessness”.
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I never said that it would “be able to house all of the homelessness” but freeing up under 1.5% of the social housing stock would house every family on the housing list. That's just maths. We've been through this in detail on another thread. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that and I'm sure other posters are finding it boring by now. Why not just re-read the other thread?
 
TheBigShort said:
with knock on effects of increasing homelessness and/or house price bubbles excluding working people from owning their own homes.
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Do you mean "excluding some working people from owning their own homes in area in which they want to live?

I'm can't afford to buy in the area I want to live. I certainly don't expect the Government to take money from my fellow citizens in order to provide me with a house in that area.
 
TheBigShort said:
Anyone voicing their concerns are fully entitled to do so. Its when they outline their proposed solutions to those concerns I merely point out how, from the get-go, those proposed solutions wont work.
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Fair play to you for admitting this!
 
TheBigShort said:
I just threw it in there for the craic! Perhaps it shows somewhat that the complexities of housing homeless families extends beyond mere freeing up of property.
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Of course it does. I don't think there's any need to state the obvious (not quite so much anyway).
I know you don't think people who disagree with you are as smart as you but just for the sake of argument work on the basis that they are. Try assuming that they are also just as moral and ethic as you and are just as interested in creating a just and fair society but have a different opinion on how we get there.
 
Purple said:
I know you don't think people who disagree with you are as smart as you but just for the sake of argument work on the basis that they are.
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Not at all. I know you are a smart intelligent person. Why you persist with defunct notions of ‘freeing up’ housing in the midst of a housing shortage is a bit of a conundrum.


Firefly said:
Not really...you just love the status quo and your union must love you for it!
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Here are two suggestions I made on the housing crisis. In no way are they panaceas for the issue but I think they will go someway to addressing the issue.

  1. Where there is a shortage of housing – build more housing, that’s just maths!

  2. Offer tax credits or refunds to people who move, voluntarily, out of their homes into smaller homes where their current home has existing capacity over and above what they need.

Here is the ICTU charter for housing plan that is funded by trade union subscribers, like me, to raise awareness and address the issue of housing. I don’t know if it will solve the problem, but again, I think it will go someway in doing so if the measures advocated are implemented. I particularly like point 4 (it would put an end to your Stalinist 5yr plan to move people around where the State see's fit)


https://www.ictu.ie/download/pdf/charter_for_housing_rights.pdf

This is the same union umbrella btw that negotiated and agreed pay cuts for its members in the public service that you yourself credit for assisting the public finances getting back on track.

Firefly said:
No doubt about it, public sector pay cuts have certainly helped us balance the books.
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So far from loving the status quo, I am actively involved, in trying to resolve the issue of housing and other social, economic and international issues.
By no means do I, or my trade union, have all the answers. But at least I've figured out that these and many other issues will not be resolved by any individual by themselves but that it will take a collective effort on the part of many. I pay to be part of that collective effort. It doesn't always succeed, but at least it beats shouting from the sidelines with your hands in your pockets.
 
TheBigShort said:
Offer tax credits or refunds to people who move, voluntarily, out of their homes into smaller homes where their current home has existing capacity over and above what they need.
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I good example of how we could better manage our housing stock in order to free up capacity and house homeless families.
And yet you seem to be against my suggestion that we should try to better manage our housing stock in order to free up capacity. I genuinely don't understand what your problem is with that idea. Given the number of social houses we have and the number of homeless families if such measures could improve our yield by just 1.5% we'd house all of the homeless families we currently have. That doesn't mean it's the cause of the crisis or anything else; it's just a good policy to have. Call it a goal or a mission statement or a policy or don't call it anything but just look to use what we have better instead of just looking for more of the same.
 
TheBigShort said:
So far from loving the status quo, I am actively involved, in trying to resolve the issue of housing and other social, economic and international issues.
By no means do I, or my trade union, have all the answers. But at least I've figured out that these and many other issues will not be resolved by any individual by themselves but that it will take a collective effort on the part of many. I pay to be part of that collective effort. It doesn't always succeed, but at least it beats shouting from the sidelines with your hands in your pockets.
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Why do Trade Unions get involved in this issue?
That's not what they are for and it'snot what their members are paying them for. In fact there is a clear conflict between the need to spend more State money on housing and the function of a Trade Union which is to get the most money for the least work for its members.
 
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