AIB Bernard Byrne CEO AIB before Finance Committee, today at 4 pm

S

SaySomething

Registered User
Messages
658
This will happen today in Committee Room 3 at 4pm.
You can watch the proceedings online via this link. Also the Oireachtas has an app where you can watch or listen online which can be handy if you're in work. Just look up Oireachtas in your mobile app store.

AGENDA: Progress made regarding resolution of the Tracker Mortgage Redress issue (resumed) [Mr. Bernard Byrne, Chief Executive Officer, Allied Irish Banks]​

http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/watchlisten/watchlive/committeeroom3/
 
I'd love to hear him split the analysis of those affected between AIB and EBS.

Based on the experience of posters on here, it seems like nothing has been done in relation to the latter. I won't hold my breath though!
 
For what it's worth, certain members of the finance committee are far more active on Twitter than they appear. Tag the most prominent members in tweets between now and 4pm and you should be able to highlight your issue...
 
will miss due to work it but just figured out (I think) that you can watch recordings @

Best wishes,
BW
 
Truffade said:
it seems like nothing has been done in relation to the latter.
Click to expand...

Hi Truff

It's not that nothing has been done. They have reviewed them and assessed them as unaffected.

You and I discussed this in this thread.

This is pretty clear. You might not like that, but it's pretty clear


"Once you have chosen to opt out of the tracker mortgage, you can not switch back to this rate option."

The "prevailing rate" is a much better case which AIB has also rejected, wrongly, in my opinion.

Brendan
https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/ebs-update-dec-2017.206486/#post-1548682
 
They are off...

Bernard Byrne
Jim O'Keeffe
Robert Mulhall
Tom Kinsella

3 key questions

Tracker introduced in 2002 when funding was available.

2008 - repricing of credit

In 2nd q of 2008, we increased the margin

Late 2008, trackers no longer offered to new customers

104,000 which were still on trackers, retained their rates.

The fallout from not offering trackers to existing customers who had quit them, was not considered.

The IT systems did not properly record the commitments made to customers.

Legal advice supported us but that was too bank centric.

A particular problem in EBS in 2015, prompted a wider review.

contractual breaches

30 different customer groupings

3 broad groups
those not on a tracker (who should have been on one?)
Those who remained on a tracker but on the wrong rate for a short while
Those who were never on a tracker, but who had a right to one.

All 3519 customers who were on a tracker, who lost it, and have now got it back

939 charged a higher margin will be redressed

The following were identified in December
Those never on a tracker, but who could not avail of one (3.67% )

A further 902 ???

No new financial disclosures today as we are in a closed period.

We will be finished by mid 2017.

But they can appeal beyond this.
 
Last edited:
Michael McGrath

Clarifies the numbers

9,348 customers including the 4,000 prevailing rate - I'll come back to them.

Questions their explanation of the cause of the problem.

Any evidence of discussion at the time about the issue?

Byrne: No

McGrath : How were the 14 people who lost their homes compensated?

Jim O'Keeffe: We looked at the rate they would have been on. Then we looked at their affordability. They were all sales. No repossessions. We built in 15% extra flexibility. What would have been the most favourable forbearance available.

We refunded.
We rebuilt the account line by line

McGrath: Have those been resolved to the satisfaction of customers

O'Keeffe - resolved in 2016 - two appealed, but appeals not upheld. But we are talking to them anyway.

Byrne: Cost €193 million in compensation and redress + the admin costs

15% for all
22% for those who entered legal process
30% for those who lost homes - subject to a minimum €50k?
 
Last edited:
Prevailing rate
How did you arrive at the €1,000 compensation about

Byrne: We decided that they were not impacted. The CB's main objective was to get them into the framework. We looked at the FSO awards for poor service and gave the upper end of that.

They were not disadvantaged...

McGRath: In your view

Byrne: In the CB's view as well.

McGrath: They were not on a tracker, but they were entitled to one

Is the prevailing rate defined in the mortgage contract

Byrne: No -

McGrath: Did they all have the same contract

Byrne: In general, similar contracts

McGrath: Is there not another clause which defines a tracker as ECB + tracker margin

Byrne: But they did not have a tracker margin in the contract

McGrath: How did you calculate the prevailing rate

Robert Mulhall: We looked at the underlying cost of funds - in the UK, they went up to 7% on trackers. The external auditors looked at it. The "then" prevailing rate.

That was our error. We interpreted "then" as meaning as there was no rate, we didn't have to give it to them.

McGrath: Why did you give them €1,000 if you did nothing wrong?

Byrne: Because we did not offer them a tracker, and we should have.

Pearse Doherty: Could they have taken out a tracker with a specified margin when they drew down their mortgage.

The letter of offer was for a tracker.

Mulhall: There was no margin specified in the contract

Doherty: There are 4 categories
Take the 4,000 3.67% contract. Were every single one of them denied a tracker?

Byrne: They were offered an SVR or fixed. They were not offered a tracker as we didn't do them.

Doherty: If they fixed again, would they have been offered a tracker?

Byrne: The prevailing rate was the rate on offer of the first period or the second period.

Doherty: Were every single one of them denied a tracker?
 
Last edited:
Biggest cohort: 600 had the 06/09 contract - they had a tracker with a specific rate, didn't get it when the fixed rate expired, but have now been put back on the rate specified in their contract.

Doherty: I don't believe your explanation - I know you weren't there at the time - but the "We didn't consider it". But customers came to you at the time and made complaints. You pulled down the shutters and told them they were wrong.

Byrne: There were a tiny number of complaints. They went to the Ombudsman and the Ombudsman did not uphold those complaints.
( Brendan: I don't think that this is correct? Did the FSO not uphold these complaints?)

Doherty: In 2010, when the CB wrote to the CEO, what did you find?

O'Keeffe: A group identified through our broker chanel (200) were identified and restituted.
There was no process for warning people who changed their contracts - so we implemented the warning from then on.

Byrne: The EBS price promise group was the first one where there was a clear contractual breach.

O'Keeffe: Explains the EBS. They had moved from one rate to another. But the original rate had a promise that it would never go above a particular rate. But that price promise was not carried over. We fixed them.

Doherty: Have you reversed any of the Ombudsman cases

Byrne: Yes.

Doherty: How many legal cases have you been notified about?

O'Keeffe: They are all included in the review - some have chosen to

There are 26 cases - most of whom have chosen the appeals process

Doherty: How many have you repossessed where you still have the house?

O'Keeffe: Two, and they don't want them back.
 
Senator Conway Walsh : Did you take legal advice at the time

Byrne: No. Not at the time. But we have taken legal advice since.

CW: Why are the 4,000 not getting redress and compensation?

Byrne: Because they did not have the rate in their contract

CW: Grossly unfair

Byrne: There was nothing taken from them.

CW : Have we a list of the 30 separate groupings

Byrne: WE can send it to you

CW: Have you received a letter from the CB about reporting criminal matters?

Byrne: Yes.

CW: Have you reported any cases to the Gardai:

Byrne: No
 
Dealing with complaints:

We have a resolver role in each bank who has the authority to settle complaints there and then up to €750.

We have centralised the complaints team in Limerick.
 
Mulhall in response to Paul Murphy

1600 EBS customers have been restituted - mainly the price promise issue. Some were given the price promise through an operational error and we have honoured them.
 
Bikini Widow said:
will miss due to work it but just figured out (I think) that you can watch recordings @

Best wishes,
BW
Click to expand...
The Oireachtas also have a new website still in beta mode, just a more modern version of the website but noticed you can also download pdf files of meetings, not sure if that option was always available but new site seems easier to navigate https://beta.oireachtas.ie/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"the prevailing rate customers will be offered at today's prevailing rate". Pearce Doherty seemed to be annoyed by this and Bernard Byrne didn't really have any answers when he questioned him on this, Pearce asked him to get back to the committee on this
 
TrackerThieves said:
Bernard Byrne didn't really have any answers
Click to expand...

I really don't understand your comment.

Bernard Byrne answered the question fully.

I stopped watching after Michael McGrath's second round of questions.

Did Pearse come in again. What is AIB to get back to them on?

Brendan
 
just meant Bernard Byrne didn't really give a straight answer when he was questioned further by Pearce on the comments that prevailing rate customers will be put back on the prevailing rate that's available now rather than when it happened. Pearce asked him to come back to the committee with answers. ill try post the transcript of it, if available later .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pearce comes in with questions surrounding the 4,000 prevailing rate customers at 2:51:30 and it was Tom Kinsella from AIB who states "we'll outline the issue in the letter and then they will be offered today's prevailing rate" and it was Bernard Byrne who answered the follow up questions. Got a little heated around 3:07-3:09 when questioned on the minutes of board meetings. It was a separate issue he was to come back to the committee with
http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=37673&&CatID=127
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top