being forced to stay overnight for work.

  • Thread starter prizefighter
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prizefighter

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hi, i dont know if this has come up in a thread before, i certainly can't find it easily. apologies if it has.

my employer has agreed to attend a meeting in the evening down the country. however he can no longer attend and has told me i should intend in his place (not asked now mind you!) I don't drive and the last train out of this place in the evening is early (8.30ish) thereby forcing me to stay overnight.

i do not want to stay away for an overnight, and am trying to resist.(note they will pay the overnight costs, so its not about that)

questions are; am i obliged to attend? my contract states that i may be requested to work OT from time to time as the request of the employer, and i do this very regularly, howver i see this being very different to OT

is the time spent overnight part of my working week? - i.e. should i be given this time back (staying overnight is not my time.. i dont want to be there and am not free to do what i wish)

is there any employment laws etc governing this?

Finally is there a legal limit on the hours one can be asked to work in one week?

i feel that the downturn has lead to this attitude from many employers that all employees should be lucky to have jobs and do whatever it takes, and while most will do a lot and put their shoulder to the wheel to help out, there has to be some limit and give and take. There seems to be a lot of exploitation going on.

thanks for your input.
 
No idea what the law is but I have never heard of anyone claiming back time in lieu in relation to overnights when on work trips. I am a civil servant (widely seen on this board at least as the least flexible, most unionised, most pampered etc etc employees in the land) and I travel a reasonable amount for work, both in Ireland and abroad. Never been any question whatsoever of claiming any sort of financial or leave in lieu recompense for time spent in hotel rooms asleep! Hotel costs are obviously paid and a flat amount for 24 hour subsistence which covers meals and incidentals.

If you are asleep in a hotel, you are hardly working. I presume you won't be expected to work into the wee hours or have your boss calling you all night? Why would you get compensated for that time?

If it is a question of not being able to go for family commitments or whatever, just say so. I have small children and occasionally I just can't square the domestic circle with overseas travel. I just say so straight out.
 
Agree with the above - have worked in many different roles private sector & public sector and frequently have had to travel for meetings involving staying overnight - its fairly normal part of most jobs irrespective of the downturn - in current private sector job we often have to travel on Sundays cos of flights etc.....I suppose we could ask for a bit of leeway then on a one off basis but it would depend on the relationship. However as you say it would be nice to be asked rather than told - even if they don't mean it!
 
thanks for your response. nothing to do with kids, although to be honest that should not even come into it, but that's for another day.

i hear what you are saying, and i guess i'm not trying to be awkward.

i'm not looking for compensation really, and the staying overnight probably isn't the biggest issue.

i don't want to get too detailed in these posts for obvious reasons, the real nub is am i obliged to attend meetings, outside of normal working hours, which i do not consider part of my work description, and result in me being way from my place of residence/family etc ?

i know that i looks like i being awkward, there is a bigger picture too.. but don't want to complicate the issue here. again thanks for your input, appreciate it.
 
Is there someone other than you that could go or coule the meeting be held earlier so as you could get the train back?
 
You don't have to do anything you don't want to but if you don't pull your weight that will probably reflect badly on your commitment to the job. Simple as that.
 
Is this a once off thing? If so, I think are being completely unreasonable unless you have personal reasons other than 'I don't want to'. If it is a regular thing, why not arrange conference call facilities and do it from the office or home.
 
Sunny said:
If it is a regular thing, why not arrange conference call facilities and do it from the office or home.
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It is not possible to participate in a public meeting by phone, or a consultation meeting. Some things still need to be face-to-face.
 
If its a once off thing and your manager can't makevit, I don't see issue. I would go, do meeting, stay in hotel, have dinner drinks on them and bath andrelax in hotel.
 
BONDGIRL said:
If its a once off thing and your manager can't makevit, I don't see issue. I would go, do meeting, stay in hotel, have dinner drinks on them and bath andrelax in hotel.
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Agreed if....... the carrot rather than the stick was used.
 
By merit of the fact, your boss origionaly planned the meeting for himself and not you, and then could not make it, is the pity. All I hear from the op and others is "poor hard done by you" Its a pity he cant send some one more dedicated to the job. You dont give confirmed reason for not wanting to go, bar, he told me to go. I think you need to spend an hour in Bill Cullens office, where you may have a different out luck on putting your shoulder to the wheel.
 
LS400 said:
By merit of the fact, your boss origionaly planned the meeting for himself and not you, and then could not make it, is the pity. All I hear from the op and others is "poor hard done by you" Its a pity he cant send some one more dedicated to the job. You dont give confirmed reason for not wanting to go, bar, he told me to go. I think you need to spend an hour in Bill Cullens office, where you may have a different out luck on putting your shoulder to the wheel.
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+1

I've kept an eye on this thread for a while.

To be honest, I'm appalled by the OP's attitude. We're in the middle of the worst recession in the history of the State. There are hundreds of thousands of people unemployed. Despite the above, the OP seems to think it's acceptable and professional to be intransigent in relation to what's a normal and straightforward request. Instead of seeing the employer asking him/her to represent him/her as a positive (i.e. a sign of trust), the OP's chosen to make an issue of it. Career suicide in my view and rightly so. Having seen your response, a sensible boss should have you managed out and replaced with a more committed team player.
 
In defence of the OP...I was working in the UK when the EU working time directive was introduced and went to a presentation on what it meant for our jobs and we were told that time spent at conferences was all working time, even when we were asleep.

Ireland's interpretation of the directive through the Organisation of Working Time legislation is different and AFAIK only work time counts as work time..
 
I think there might be other issues at play here, which the OP hinted at but quite rightly didn't want to give any details.

Thread should probably be closed at this stage?
 
Look, these things happen in the work environment from time to time. If it is a once-off, and you don't have any compelling reason for not attending this meeting, you should definitely go; I would certainly raise the issue that you should have been asked whether it is possible for you to attend.

I do business trips from time to time over to London and could clock up 4 hours on a Sunday travelling time from home to the airport, flying over and then driving to hotel; I certainly never entertain the idea of claiming that time back nevermind the time spent on staying overnight.
 
IS it not a compliment from your boss that he is happy that he believes you have the skills and abilities to attend such meetings? I travel for work once or twice a month and have done so for years, I'm at the stage where in certain hotels I know exactly where everything is in the dark, almost like my own bedroom. However, I also family and other committements and by making it clear to my own boss what my parameters are in terms of availability, I rarely have an issue with scheduling

Travel and a flexibile attitude to working hours are par for the course in certain roles. If you're not up for it, then you are either in the wrong job or the wrong career and you should go and get a job somewhere where you can clock in and out. Instead of feeling sorry for yourself, why not take it for what it is, an opportunity to meet and network with clients, impress your employers with your ability and maybe even have a nice dinner on their expenses!!

Noboys can force you to go to this meeting, you need to make a decision but be prepared to deal with the consequences of that decision
 
I feel a bit sorry for OP here because most responses are not just harsh but also nonconstructive.
He asked precise questions and didn't get answers to them.

OP - I've been in your shoes before and tbh I was annoyed every time I was told (not asked - and no traveling is not part of my job description) to go and it was presumed that personal circumstances are bending around my work. I do think, it's just fair to expect a certain levy from an employer who in turn expects their employees to work overtime (such as extra time in the evenings). My employer is quite unflexible so while I cannot leave work early without taking the time from my annual leave, they expect every time I go that I work about 12 hours without getting compensated for it (getting paid 8h). So recession or no recession, I agree that a line should be drawn somewhere at some stage.

I would go, do meeting, stay in hotel, have dinner drinks on them and bath andrelax in hotel.
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If that was reality, I'd agree that OP should enjoy it. Unfortunately the trips I've been on, this is far from it!
 
The OP is giving his free time for the company approx: between 5pm and 8 am. It's not the norm but a day in lieu would be a nice gesture.
 
no one is obliged to work overtime, i feel maybe if you were more open about why you do not want to go other posters may be more understanding. i feel travelling and time spent at meeting is all working time. if you have to start your return journey the following morning at 7am, your day starts from there.

i would see this as a compliment as your boss is sending you instead.

you need to ask your boss what he is given you in return, e.g. wages or toil or both
 
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