Bank of Ireland Staff- Lost Tracker

Discussion in 'Issues with tracker mortgages' started by Onceagain, Nov 28, 2015.

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  1. todo

    todo Frequent Poster

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    I don't like the sound of this.

    1. The FSO finds in your favour, offering you back your tracker?
    2. BOI appeal the decision.
    3. FSO give in without going to the high court.


    I thought the FSO decision was final and the only way to appeal it was to go through the high court. Now they can't have it every way. If I wanted to appeal the FSO's decision you can be sure I'd be made go to the high court. How was it so easy for BOI to get the decision in your favour squashed.
     
  2. MorgVar

    MorgVar Frequent Poster

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    This is rally bizarre. At this stage BOI are obviously not meeting the obligations as outlined by CB. I thought U B were poor❓ .

    All affected BOI customers should alert and complain to CB by email.

    When you refer to 1 BOI customer being restored is this following the current CB review❓
     
  3. MAX01

    MAX01 Registered User

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    The FSO reviewed my case again and 18 months or so later found against me. They overturned their own legal arguments that had been in my favour in the first instance. I often wondered if the fact that there are 1800 staff members affected, if they found in my favour then they would have had to put back all 1800 staff on trackers and at that stage all the banks were struggling?
    I don't have a name in Deloitte, sent an email outlining my concerns, no response from them. The more customers to contact them, perhaps they might take note and get more involved in the process. Also, write to Central Bank, I have received an acknowledgement from them.
    Yes, the customer who got their tracker returned is part of the review process.
     
  4. dereko1969

    dereko1969 Frequent Poster

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  5. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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  6. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
    Is there anymore information as to who the 602 are. Some papers saying they are staff. Other's saying BOI wont confirm?
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2016
  7. Linten

    Linten Registered User

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    Don't know where Charlie Weston got his information on that. May just be guessing as it was thought that it was staff that made up the bulk of new cases to be reviewed.
    Indeed was this press release a rushed job from BOI ahead of the Central Bank update on Monday. It is somewhat concerning that if the main review of mortgages has been completed, that BOI does not appear to be conceding that anybody will be put back on Tracker on the basis of consumer protection code violations. Apart from contractual entitlements, this was the other main area where mortgage customers were being put back on Tracker from other banks, incl. AIB & Ulster Bank. In each of these cases their CEO mentioned not being 'sufficiently clear' with customers which is consumer protection code speak. It would be very strange if BOI had none of these, however the press release stated that the 602 cases were entitled to Tracker based on their loan documentation.
    In any case the postman will be bringing more that Xmas cards to 600 homes tomorrow morning so we will have to wait and see the circumstances surrounding the various cases, given that BOI have not provided any further information.
     
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  8. Hogmeister55

    Hogmeister55 Registered User

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    Have any BOI staff at all received a letter? If not I think we can assume none of us are getting one.

    The BOI tracker helpline can offer no information at all, which I suspect is confirmation we are not included. I also expect, by current form, we will be fobbed off until the middle of 2017 when the helpline will suddenly cease to exist.

    The appeals process is probably the only hope now, but how do you appeal something that you will never be officially told?

    Is there a mechanism for an appeal?
    If so - Is it through the FSO, Deloitte or Central Bank? Or via a financial advisor / solicitor
    Is this something I can pursue immediately is there any point in waiting?
     
  9. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

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    I absolutely heard on the radio that it was staff mortgages. I sincerely doubt a good journalist like Charlie Weston just plucks thinks out of the air. He even got an award this year for his journalism.
     
  10. Linten

    Linten Registered User

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    Just because it was on the radio or Charlie Weston says it, doesn't mean it is the case. No staff member on this thread got their tracker restored or they would have posted.
     
  11. Hogmeister55

    Hogmeister55 Registered User

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    It seems clear to me the staff aren't getting the trackers back but we don't know on what grounds they are being rejected.

    If an estimated 1800 staff / ex-staff are affected yet no one has got a letter and BOI are declaring only 602 accounts affected its the only conclusion to draw from it.

    The main argument for returning to trackers is that staff were never informed when switching in 2006, from trackers to a staff variable rate, that the tracker rate may not be available in future. Any subsequent fixing in 2007 and after is likely to be irrelevant if this initial argument is not accepted.

    I understand that staff and non-staff who fixed and were not informed they may lose their future right to a tracker have had them returned in 2010/11.

    It would be useful if the Central Bank published some case studies from all the banks. It would be good to know how other banks have handled a switch from tracker to variable in their reviews ( or even if they had any). This would really help in deciding if it's even worth appealing.
     
  12. Linten

    Linten Registered User

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    Would be pretty certain that all letters have issued...they were going out immediately after the press release on 16th Dec. You could call the mortgage centre and ask them what rate you are on, as tracker rate will now have been restored to all those who have received letters. Alternatively, January mortgage repayment will also reflect the new lower rate.
    The problem is that BOI have not said whether there are any more to be restored, just that the review is ongoing.....nor has the Central Bank provided any clarification on this.
     
  13. Tedtalk

    Tedtalk Frequent Poster

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    Thank you Linten. I happened to obtain definitive confirmation of this earlier today also. The 602 letters have been issued!! Unfortunately, if your like me and you have not received one, it is back to square one.
     
  14. MAX01

    MAX01 Registered User

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    I have not heard of any of the 1800 affected staff getting their trackers returned, however the review is ongoing so there is still hope. At this stage though, it is worrying that none of the staff have been successful in getting their trackers restored. I would urge all staff to write to Central Bank expressing their concerns at the lack of transparency and total lack of communication by BOI, also to contact Deloitte who are overseeing the review.
     
  15. Onceagain

    Onceagain Frequent Poster

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    Do this regularly, doesnt seem to make a difference, however if everyone on here pulls together and writes in, maybe they will listen. The press release given prior to the central bank update was very vague,the lady on the help line is so heavily scripted, you would be quicker getting blood out of a stone. This plus the update from the central bank has been so poorly communicated,they should have given an update on each individual bank, leading to further frustration.Hopefully we are all put out of our misery in early 2017.
     
  16. Linten

    Linten Registered User

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    I was wondering if any staff member received a definitive response from the Bank or FSO on appealing non restoration of Tracker. I have reviewed all my own docs (which would be similar to many hundreds of other staff docs)and firmly believe that we should be entitled to return of tracker..
    - original mortgage drawndown on variable rate to be no more than x% above ECB for the term of the loan
    - Mortgage Offer letter refers only to 'variable' rate - no mention of Tracker rate- this is important in context of move from Tracker
    - in August 2006 converted to staff mortgage rate and signed MFA which stated that if staff mortgage rate unavailable, the interest rate applicable will be the prevailing 'Home Loan variable rate'. My original mortgage was granted at a 'variable' rate (albeit linked to ECB rate) and as such this condition on the MFA should entitle me to reversion to same rate
    - when staff mortgage rate no longer available in Jan 2007, BOI offered return to original tracker rate or a 2 yr fixed rate(this was a general staff communication rather than an individual offer).
    - opted for 2 yr fixed and signed further MFA which did not specifically offer return to original 'variable' ECB + margin, but the ONLY option mentioned on the MFA is 'if the loan is to be converted to a Tracker Mortgage Loan'.....+ normal Tracker terminology (exact copies of these MFAs have already been produced on other posts on this thread)
    - both MFAs were signed after the introduction of Consumer Protection Code on 1st August 2006, which placed additional responsibilities on the Bank in terms of transparency, best interests of the customer, etc.
    I know I'm biased but it looks clearcut to me...the likelihood is that the interpretation of what the 'Homeloan variable rate' meant on the first MFA signed is what is being disputed by the Bank in failing to restore tracker variable.
    I'm sure may colleagues are in the exact same position, so if anybody has any ideas that might work in taking our cause forward I'd like to hear. Has anybody appealed their case up to executive level in the Bank? Has anybody heard of any colleague getting their tracker back in the same scenario?
     
  17. MAX01

    MAX01 Registered User

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    I am one of the 1800 staff affected and as already outlined on AAM I did take my case to the Ombudsman and he found in my favour, however FSO then rejected their own findings and reviewed my case again. I waited another 18 months and surprise surprise Bill Prasifka found in favour of BOI.
    He concluded his findings by stating the following-
    "I am cognisant of the fact that the wording in the documentation, in particular the MFA's signed by the Complainants, are not very clear. It would have been most prudent of the Bank to have specifically defined a tracker rate in the original loan agreement, which could have specifically prevented the confusion which led to this dispute. It is also a failure of the Bank in neglecting to clarify exactly the rate that would apply on expiry of the Complaints fixed rate, which they took out in December 2006.. I also must bear in mind the fact that the Bank communicated with the Complainants on two occasions in 2008, that they would be availing of the tracker rates on expiry, albeit the Bank clarified this not to be the case shortly afterwards.
    I direct the Bank to pay 1,000 in compensation to the Complainants."
    He has acknowledged the failures of the Bank in their dealings with me but yet he finds in their favour!
    How can anyone have confidence in FSO when they overturn their own findings?
    We had a date set for the High Court hearing, I had spoken to the person who had found in my favour and he was very confident we would win our case and then , out of the blue, I receive a call to say they were not proceeding to the High Court, had cancelled their findings and would review my case again with a different team.
    I wonder was it because by winning my case, BOI would be forced to return trackers to 1800 staff and no way would the bank allow that to happen.
    Despite their ongoing tracker investigation I doubt very much that the bank will return the trackers to the 1800 staff as they have Bill Prasifka s finding in their favour. They will conveniently forget the original finding in my favour.
     
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  18. Sarenco

    Sarenco Frequent Poster

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    Did you initiate and then subsequently withdraw an appeal to the High Court? Why didn't you proceed?
     
  19. MAX01

    MAX01 Registered User

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    BOI appealed the FSO decision to the High Court, but it was the FSO themselves who withdrew my case before it got to the High Court
     
  20. Hogmeister55

    Hogmeister55 Registered User

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    I thought that one of the reasons the current tracker review was taking place is that the current FSO did not agree with a lot of his predecessors findings. I also don't believe the wording above fully took into consideration the consumer protection regulations on notifying customers on the implications of giving up a tracker rate.
     
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