If that's the case Slaintecare faces the same fate as UHI.
Are income tax rates really too high in Ireland
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NoRegretsCoyote
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UHI can work in a small market.
The 2015 decision to shelve UHI (Varadkar's doing, which no one remembers) was mainly on the grounds that it would be expensive and involve changes to pretty much all delivery of healthcare at all levels.
But this was just another policy choice, not some kind of insurmountable obstacle.
It's already heading that way.
RetirementPlan
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You think Slaintecare won't be expensive and wont involve changes to pretty much all delivery of healthcare at all levels?
NoRegretsCoyote
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No, and I never suggested as much!
I'm agnostic about healthcare delivery models and I don't have an expertise. There are lots of options from UHI, to something like the NHS, to the US system.
None of these are impossible in the Irish context. Large-scale structural reform requires near-infinite political will, and I won't see much of that around.
RetirementPlan
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I'm not an expert either, but I know that the NHS isn't an insurance model at all, unless I'm badly mistaken. There is a fair degree of political will and near all-party support for Slaintecare. Why would UHI have been canned when Slaintecare has similar demands for reform?
NoRegretsCoyote
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I guess different constituencies are catered to or discommoded.
AFAIK Sláintecare is not going anywhere either.
Back on topic, the Irish Times had an article today on income tax rates. Nothing revelationary.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...land-a-high-tax-country-for-workers-1.4782265
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...land-a-high-tax-country-for-workers-1.4782265
Looks like the fuel protests have gotten the message through to government that people are fed up paying high taxes not just on fuel but on everything in this country.
Simon harris now talking about tax cuts for income tax payers in next budget. Amazingly Pascal Donohue left all the bands alone despite inflation effectively dragging more people into the high tax bracket on relatively low incomes but still raised all the welfare rates. This was very short sighted even Pearce doherty of SF thought this was politically stupid but within a few months pascal had exited so obviously didnt care about the political consequences.
Simon harris now talking about tax cuts for income tax payers in next budget. Amazingly Pascal Donohue left all the bands alone despite inflation effectively dragging more people into the high tax bracket on relatively low incomes but still raised all the welfare rates. This was very short sighted even Pearce doherty of SF thought this was politically stupid but within a few months pascal had exited so obviously didnt care about the political consequences.
The problem with that is tax cuts are inflationary, as are fuel price increases.
It remains to be seen if there'll be tax cuts, or just indexation.
We had a tax rise this year given there was no indexation in last year's budget.
Irish income taxes are below average and closer to US than many EU peers, OECD data shows
Irish workers pay less tax than the EU average with rates closer to the US than high-tax EU economies such as Belgium, France and Germany, according to analysis by the OECD.
m.independent.ie
The Horseman
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The simple message is middle Ireland pays for most and receives the least in return.
Maybe the penny is finally dropping with the govt. Many people are over the threshold for state assistance but not earning enough to live.
Not to make this a political post but we have gone to far left spending money we have not even earned as a country.
Maybe the penny is finally dropping with the govt. Many people are over the threshold for state assistance but not earning enough to live.
Not to make this a political post but we have gone to far left spending money we have not even earned as a country.
Yes, and this is bonkers crazy high, for the worker on median earnings.
Even though, effective income tax rates are not high in Ireland.
No they din't. Middle Ireland are, as a cohort, net recipients from the State.
generous tax free allowances coupled with a very generous welfare system and high marginal tax rates is a disincentive to work.
They will give us indexation but not even enough to make up for missing last year and tell us it’s a tax cut. Opposition will call it a tax giveaway to the wealthy.
Media will eat it up and repeat the line.
I guess the question is who is and how wide a band is middle Ireland.
I think a lot of figure on medium income are not reflective of what people are thinking, they include a student working two shifts a week supported by parents, retired people, unemployed people etc.
If we look at a specific demographic, two adult households with kids under 18. Medium after tax income is about 70k.
That includes householders where just one parent works, where one parent is full time and the other part time and households where no one works (about 10% I think). There’s also a certain amount of undeclared income not in there.
My point is that middle full time working Ireland is much higher than the stats often say and I’m not sure how well they do from the state.
Okay, that's 2 parents earning around €42,000 a year with total payroll deductions of around €14,000, assuming no pension contributions of other allowances.
If they have 2 kids in school then the State is spending significantly more that €14,000 educating them (€7,430 per primary school student and €9,816 per secondary school student as of 2021). They also get €3,360 (edit; figure corrected) in children's allowance so before the use a road, a hospital, a park or walk under a streetlight they are already significant net recipients from the State to the tune of somewhere between €10,00 and €15,000.
Even if they paid VAT on every cent they spent they would still be net recipients and that's not factoring in the value of the State Pension that they will receive.
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So cutting the fuel taxes has now reduced the inflationary pressures, and thats what the EU was looking for governments to do aswell.
If tax cuts are inflationary ,what about welfare increases , they are also inflationary yet those are always justified because of inflation. Welfare increases in a high welfare spending state also act as disincentives to work which are another inflationary pressure because it reduces the productivity of the economy. People that could be working choose not to work or work less hours.