Are domestic solar panels financially beneficial - or just ideological?
- Thread starter Windsor23
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Yeah, they can only offer a guide. Solar energy is variable, Wexford receives an average of ~20% more solar energy than Donegal, and then factors like orientation, angle, shading and variations in cloud cover (areas on the prevailing windward side of hills / mountains will experience more cloud cover than the leeward side) all factor into how the panels will perform in any one setup.
Howth Head
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Commenting directly on the thread title - if solar panels are "ideological" you can only presume that (like many Green polices) the feel-good end justifies the means. Ditto with EVs
www.rte.ie
The investigation also found that enormous volumes of coal, the dirtiest fossil fuel, were being mined and burned in order to process and purify the polysilicon.
This lead to extremely high levels of air pollution in an industrial zone called Zhundong Development Park, one of the most important areas for polysilicon production in China, where polysilicon companies are co-located with vast open-pit coal mines. Three of the world’s top ten polysilicon manufacturers are based in the park.
China's subsidisation of its solar industry has driven down prices and made solar power the most affordable energy source in the world, but critics say this has been done at a human and environmental cost that is too great to ignore.
Widely used solar brands tied to forced labour in China
Solar panels used widely across Ireland were sourced from companies linked to forced labour and environmental devastation in the Xinjiang region of China.
The investigation also found that enormous volumes of coal, the dirtiest fossil fuel, were being mined and burned in order to process and purify the polysilicon.
This lead to extremely high levels of air pollution in an industrial zone called Zhundong Development Park, one of the most important areas for polysilicon production in China, where polysilicon companies are co-located with vast open-pit coal mines. Three of the world’s top ten polysilicon manufacturers are based in the park.
China's subsidisation of its solar industry has driven down prices and made solar power the most affordable energy source in the world, but critics say this has been done at a human and environmental cost that is too great to ignore.
JoeRoberts
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And when the West has got rid of 50% of its electricity generating options they will hold us to ransom.
What will the hold us to ranson with? We'll have the solar panels already
JoeRoberts
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Replacements, new ones. They wont last forever. And the batteries.
How would they enforce that ransom when others will fill any supply gap they artificially create?
Just look at who the IP holders are for much of the current generation and it's clear they can't win that particular battle.
JoeRoberts
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Bit like the semiconductor market for cutting edge chips and RAM where a handful (or fewer!) companies dominate and the barriers to entry are unbelievably high.
Why do you think the other major suppliers wouldn't expand capacity to meet demand?
They don't have a monopoly on the technology, its price that is winning them market share at the moment. Their low prices are very much affected by state subsidies, but there's nothing to suggest they will ever be in a position to demand whatever price they choose or eliminate global competition.
JoeRoberts
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While China dominates, they control less of the supply chain for the ancillary components. If they suggest throttling supply, then increased prices will drive other markets to expand. Put simply, there is no prospect of them holding the rest of the world to ransom. They can drive prices up for a while but at significant long term cost to their now dominant position. There is no incentive for them to do so at this or any foreseeable juncture.
JoeRoberts
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Not comparable, there are many countries supplying fossil fuels
There are many countries supplying fossil fuels now, there wasn't always obviously otherwise we wouldn't have had the oil shocks of the 1970's. But then I struggle to see how those kind of shocks evolve for solar/battery given they're not a use-it-once commodity like oil. Sure, China could put the brakes on exports but then Germany has pedigree in solar panel manufacturing, South Korea has pedigree in battery manufacturing, and I'm sure both would be only too happy to step into the void - and they'd have plenty of time to do so. And that's before you get into the rapidly improving chemistries and techniques for producing both. Worst case, it'll cost more than it would otherwise but I can't see any situation where our grids crumble due to China withholding exports for the 10-15 years that it would take to cause a "shock".
Your argument is a bit like saying don't build roads, the Germans may stop selling us cars. Plenty of other countries stepped up to build us cars (including China!).
Yes and anyway it's "over there " so who cares about pollution and enforced labour in far away countries in the far east or Africa, as long as I can say "look at me I'm the best boy/girl in the class "with my solar panels and EV battery car. Global NIMBYism
Sure it’s always the pinko, gas-guzzling V12 drivers going on and on about human rights!
Absolute nonsense tbh. This is like reverse virtue signalling. In order to avoid accusations of hypocrisy you have to trash your local environment AND the global environment equally. Kudos.
Brendan Burgess
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that's all folks.
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