KBC Anyone got the KBC handbook from 2005

Babog007

Registered User
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40
HI Babog007,
My application date was 18th feb08 and my contract wording is identical to yours. They deemed me not impacted due to begin passed the deadline date of the 11th of Feb
According to PK @ JFOC he advised this was still being used by the Brokers long after. Look up the transcripts of the meetings.
 

Jazzer1

Frequent Poster
Messages
143
My case is with P.Kissane at present. His office told me the same thing that it wasn't unit July 08 that they stopped the Flyer.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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38,117
upload_2019-3-24_10-41-4.png


So this seems very clear to me. While there appears to be two separate documents, they say the same thing.

At the expiry of the fixed rate period, your loan will revert to the IIB Homeloans Renewal rate...[which is] a variable rate and may be varied by the lender from time to time in line with the general market conditions.

At the expiry of the fixed rate period, the Lenders prevailing variable rate will apply.


The handbook explains what a variable rate is which is what the common understanding of a variable rate is. It also explains that is is different from a fixed rate and from a tracker rate.


The AIB and ptsb contracts were very different. "At the end of the fixed rate period, you will be offered a choice of fixed, variable or tracker at the then prevailing rates"

If you have that contract and that handbook, you would have a huge job persuading a court or the Ombudsman that you were entitled to a tracker when the fixed rate expired. Certainly worth going to the Ombudsman as it costs you nothing, but I don't think it's the worth the risk of a High Court case.

Again I will stress that I am referring to the above wording. Someone may get an entitlement to a tracker through a flyer or some other communication. But that is a very separate issue.
 

Darn40

Frequent Poster
Messages
70
Are these two paragraphs from different years, the first one explains the rate the second one does not.
The first one says the rate may vary from time to time in line with general market condition ie svr.
The second one does not explained the rate, it should at least explain the rate.
 

Babog007

Registered User
Messages
40
Are these two paragraphs from different years, the first one explains the rate the second one does not.
The first one says the rate may vary from time to time in line with general market condition ie svr.
The second one does not explained the rate, it should at least explain the rate.

This is 1 contract, 2 seperate pages. April 2008
 

bluestilton

Registered User
Messages
25
Dear all I would welcome observations on the following:
I have held mortgages with IIB/KBC since 2005. It was always my understanding that I was on a SVR that changed according to changes in the ECB rate. In response to a recent complaint regarding whether I should have been on a tracker the bank informed me that what I signed up to in 2005 when we remortgaged was the lenders variable rate which was not related to changes in the ECB rates. I was on a period of interest only for five years on taking out the mortgages. Recently I located some letters from the bank dated September 2006 and April 2007 which notified me of revised interest rates where the rates had increased and the following was stated by the bank in each letter "revised interest rate is ... with effect from .......This was in response to the ECB increase on 8th March 2007". Perhaps I am not reading this correctly but it looks to me like they were tracking the ECB rate at this stage up to when rates were rising but when rates began to fall they changed the goalposts and introduced their lenders variable rate, am I correct in saying this?
Thank you.
 

Jazzer1

Frequent Poster
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143
It's in black and white that the kbc should of offered me a tracker when my fixed term expired
 
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Jazzer1

Frequent Poster
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143
Feb08, I am trying to find a publishing date on the handbook to see how far it went back
 

Jazzer1

Frequent Poster
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143
Jazzer1
Did you get it quoted when you rolled off? I didn’t in 2011
My Fixed term ended on 31st March 2010 after fixing for 2 years. I believed I should of been part of the Flyer cohort as I got my Mortgage from a broker.
 

Jazzer1

Frequent Poster
Messages
143
offered a tracker.

Have you been told anything?
Brendan,
KBC said my account was not impacted in March 2018 in a final response. My case is with Padraic Kissane now and he believes I have a strong case!. He thinks it will more that likely have to go to the Ombudsman as the bank are not engaging with him over certain accounts that they have already deemed not impacted. I believe the central bank has asked Padraic for a report on some cases with KBC, so fingers crossed.
 

Babog007

Registered User
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40
Jazzer1,
I made complaints in 2011 didn't get it. Told Mar 18 not impacted then u turned 2 months later. Doing an appeal now.
I was told to check paperwork on application date etc.
KBC admitted at JFOC last year re handbook & broker flyer.
 

Babog007

Registered User
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40
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_finance_public_expenditure_and_reform_and_taoiseach/2018-02-06/5/

Mr. Wim Verbraeken
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We allow for the normal terms of the delay between a draw-down date and the application date. That is why we take into account the application date rather than the draw-down date. We believe that was the influencing factor. That was the moment that customers would have made their choice and would have been led by the information in the leaflet.
 

Babog007

Registered User
Messages
40
Therefore, it was issued to the broker network at the beginning of November 2006 and then revoked through communication with the brokers.

Ms Dara Deering
Roinn
On 11 February 2008. The specific date of issuance was 7 November 2006.

Deputy Michael McGrath
Roinn
Would the mortgage documentation of the customers, as in the mortgage contract, not have made reference to any entitlement to be put on a tracker?

Ms Dara Deering
Roinn
It never referred to a tracker. Exactly.


Deputy Michael McGrath
Roinn
The brochure had been circulated, however, and clearly influenced the decision of many customers to go with KBC Bank and to opt for the product in question. The flyer was issued on 7 November 2006 and revoked on 11 February 2008. Of course, the bank did not have control over the communication that existed between the brokers and those individuals who were to become the bank's customers.
 
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