Anyone going on Joe Duffy should get media training as they will be devoured by media savvy Joe

L

Leper

Registered User
Messages
2,020
I listened to yesterday's show on the radio player:- Liveline (rte.ie)

I should point out that on another thread on this forum I compared "Life Loans" to giving sweets to a child and for the record I am against such loans. The following is my opinion of what happened on the show:-

1. Siobhán opened the show stating Compound Interest 6.1% applied to her parents Life Loan of €100K which by now has accumulated to €261405K. She claimed BoI were "reputable" and parents wondered what could go wrong. (8 mins).
2. The listener was advised that the couple no longer own 100% of their own home and the Bank can be owed more than the value of the house after 15 years of the loan.
3. The listener was advised also that there are five warnings given to the people applying for the loan. Joe Duffy wonders if so, why are such loans on the market.
4. Enter Bill who says loan rate is "penal" and fails to get "forgiveness" in dealing with Bank. Joe says he invited BoI to supply a spokesperson and they do not.
5. Enter Mr Brendan Burgess. I was looking for some cogent input and suddenly he says (not an exact quote) "interest rates are too high because of radio shows like Joe Duffy's." Mr Burgess also called for the show to be (exact quote) "more balanced." How could it be "more balanced" if BoI failed to supply a spokesperson? To me, it appeared Mr Burgess was an apologist for a financial institution which failed to show up.
6. Enter Tom Murray (Fair Deal Advisor) who claims there are no Fair Deal warnings in the bank's Five-Warnings and detrimentally affects later application for the Fair Deal Scheme.
7. Enter Mr Burgess again (on 25th minute) who advises that applicants for Life Loans should seek independent financial advice. He also advises that there are outrageous and disgraceful statements on the show. He defends the Life Loans as being a very good product. (32 mins).[Added later:- Mr Burgess did say the interest rate charged for such loans was much higher than the UK equivalent].
8. Enter Mr David Hall who says Life Loans are a "predatory product" when one considers the age, vulnerabilty etc of the applicants. (33 mins).
9. Mr Brendan Burgess appears and advises the five warnings, full programme of loan can be misinterpreted by applicants, He might advise that trading down is more beneficial for the Life Loan seekers.
10. Mr Hall interrupts and calls the loans to be "despicable" products.
11. Enter James. His mother received a loan of €75K and amount outstanding rose to €190K. The lady was hit by dementia during the course of the loan. James suggested that the loan was "elder abuse."
12. Enter John Brannigan, retired banker who advised applicants usual spurious relationship with their solicitor regarding financial matters. Joe Duffy interrupts with the applicant seeing "a trip to Australia, not a mortgage."
13. James Smith claims that a loan of €12K in 20002 rose to €43K in 2012. He entered negotiations with bank who refused to negotiate and wanted all the money outstanding "now." Mr Burgess calculated that the outstanding amount should be €23K and suggested the original loan could be for a greater amount or perhaps an additional loan was later sought. The Financial Ombudsman was involved, but I'm unsure of the findings.
14. Enter Ciara (or Kiera, or whatever!). €45K loan increased to €137K due and was paid on sale of the house.
15. The show ends on 78 mins (ad breaks not included), mercifully, me again wondering how such loans are still available.

I have always said these so called Life Loans were bad products and I think I have average intelligence. But, the vulnerability, future health etc of applicants appears (to me) to be ignored for financial institution profit. Such loans were withdrawn in 2002 and launched again in 2020. That in itself tells a story. Bank of Ireland failed to supply a spokesperson which in itself suggests that "independents" should give such radio shows a wide berth. Why defend the Bank of Ireland when it won't defend itself?

But, to be fair to Brendan Burgess, I learned much from him during the Liveline show. He didn't have to appear but he willingly did and for this I give him credit. Certainly, with my knowledge of such shows I wouldn't have stuck my head above the parapet. I hope I have not offended anybody.
 
Last edited:
1. Many years ago I was invited to appear on a live radio show. I consented, showed up at the radio station; practice run took place and programme producer and presenter asked me not to use all my material on the live interview. I argued that it was central to our defence and I insisted on its use. The interview was cancelled minutes before it was due to take place. My faith on live radio interviews died since.

2. I was criticised on a national newspaper and named along with the less than good service my (then) employer was giving. I called to the newspaper office to complain about my name being mentioned and was interviewed by the article writer. He informed me in no uncertain terms that if he thought something was newsworthy he would print it irrespective of my feelings. I had to leave the newspaper with my tail between my legs.
 
Allpartied said:
So, how do you get more competition, more banks to get involved and a lower cost for such products.

One way would be to have a rational, factual discussion about these products and how they work.

Unfortunately, Joe Duffy torpedoed that with his show this week.
Click to expand...

1. Joe Duffy didn't torpedo competition between financial institutions. Ridiculously high compound interest rates did.
2. BoI were invited onto Joe Duffy's radio show. They refused to attend or comment. Joe Duffy can only play what is in front of him so say something silly (or even sound silly) or fail to show up he'll be on that like a fly to flypaper.

My advice to anybody wishing for publicity:- Don't set yourself up as a stool pigeon if you don't want to be shot at.
 
Allpartied said:
But there isn't any competition at the moment. There is only one institution willing to provide these very useful products. Why is that?

The high interest that BofI were charging in 2005, wasn't actually very high at all.

Average variable rate mortgages were charging about 4.5 to 5% in 2003/4. So a 15 year fix rate at 6.9%, while expensive, was pretty reasonable.

Of course, if you don't pay a penny on your loan, for 15 years, it's gonna cost you a lot in interest, whatever interest rate your paying.
Click to expand...
1. Ask the financial institutions? I'm not their spokesperson.
2. "The high interest that BofI were charging in 2005, wasn't actually very high at all." - But you (repeat you) said it was "high."
3. "Pretty reasonable" and reasonable are not the same thing.
4. I never challenged the cost of not paying what should have been repaid.
 
Leper said:
The bank is entitled to decline, but it is not fair to say "mistruths and FUD, largely unchallenged by the presenter."
Click to expand...

They are two separate issues. There were massive mistruths and FUD in the programme which were not challenged which is why I asked to go on.

Leper -

I have suggested to the banks generally and the Banking Federation that they should participate in programmes and explain their position.

But, you saw the abuse I got trying to correct misinformation, counter lies and explain the product. I was met with a torrent of emotion, outrage, irrationality. The presenter, his three experts and all the callers were lined up against me. Nearly every time I spoke, the callers interrupted me to shout me down.

And I am an independent consumer advocate trying to explain what is best for consumers of financial products. I have no vested interest in this.

Bank of Ireland was accused of "elder abuse" , "usury", "criminal" and "predator." Then add in a woman who sees no point in living because BoI is going to take her house and she can't hug her grandchildren and she is going blind.

It's not a rational discussion and the Bank could gain nothing from an irrational bearpit like that.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
They are two separate issues. There were massive mistruths and FUD in the programme which were not challenged which is why I asked to go on.

Leper -

I have suggested to the banks generally and the Banking Federation that they should participate in programmes and explain their position.

But, you saw the abuse I got trying to correct misinformation, counter lies and explain the product. I was met with a torrent of emotion, outrage, irrationality. The presenter, his three experts and all the callers were lined up against me. Nearly every time I spoke, the callers interrupted me to shout me down.

And I am an independent consumer advocate trying to explain what is best for consumers of financial products. I have no vested interest in this.

Bank of Ireland was accused of "elder abuse" , "usury", "criminal" and "predator." Then add in a woman who sees no point in living because BoI is going to take her house and she can't hug her grandchildren and she is going blind.

It's not a rational discussion and the Bank could gain nothing from an irrational bearpit like that.

Brendan
Click to expand...

The one thing nobody can hide from is the truth. I see nothing wrong with a Bank spokesperson or Consumer Advocate saying:-
"Hold on a minute, let me explain . . . " If interruptions happen then "Mr Duffy, you're not letting me get my points across . . . " and if necessary "Can I take issue with . . . . ?" and "Before we move away from the subject can I say . . . .?" or "Joe Duffy you are not being fair with me . . . "

Emotional, interruptional bullying words can be used, but the bottom line is nobody can argue with the truth. The listener is not stupid and can make up his/her own mind on the content of what is being said. Joe Duffy can only interview those participating.

Media Training is the key along with the truth. Go up against a highly media trained Joe Duffy or any two-bit FM media trained radio presenter without such training and you'll find yourself to be cannon fodder in an open trench like you suggested.

You performed well on the programme as far as I am concerned. You didn't score any own goals but your naivité regarding media presentation was a little wanting (I don't mean this to be offensive). I learnt this lesson years ago where street-cred can outdo 3rd Level Education at times.

I learn from you today that the bank gave statement(s) on the matter to extra.ie (a joke of a news provider in my opinion). So the bank now looks like it had something to hide by not participating with Joe Duffy. They can't blame you or me for this. All the bank had to do was provide some "media savvy" spokesperson to tell the truth. I don't think that is onerous.

I am not media trained and any radio presenter would gobble me up in seconds. But, I was an unpaid trade union rep for most of my working days and I learnt early on that if somebody had any kind of complaint that I would need written documentation from him/her before I'd give any kind of representation. I would ask management for the same before re-contacting the complainant. Like I already said you cannot argue with the truth.
 
Last edited:
Just a few more thoughts from a Leper with no media training whatsoever and with respect:-
I used to have a saying during my trade union days i.e. "Manage the manager . . . " It always worked where the truth pertained. Compromise was another issue and the end result should always be in mind. But, the truth was always king, so use it.

Always remember when you participate in a radio show you're playing a game where you don't have the ball at your feet all the time. You've got to make use of the ball when you have it. Ask any Dub supporter! You're inexperienced and It's how you use the ball on which you will be judged. Before you start, be aware that you are a goal behind. You've got to make up the difference early in any interview. Scoring an own goal can be disastrous. But, when you have the truth on your side you should not lose. Preparation and Presentation are next in importance. Like Roy Keane keeps saying Fail to prepare, prepare to fail!

I have no doubt that Joe Duffy will return to the subject and remember the first rule in Cork Hurling is:- Get Your Retaliation in First. We'll do that too, when Limerick give us the chance.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
The whole programme argued fast and loose with the truth.

Angry mobs do not care about the truth.

Do you think that the truth bothered the Brexit Campaign or Donald Trump for the last 4 years?

Brendan
Click to expand...

Sorry, Brendan. I'm only trying to help. The truth is king. Present it well, Deliver it and not even Donald J ("for genius") Trump can argue with it.
 
Last edited:
Leper you’re not in any way insulting. It’s better BB knows how he comes across. You’re bang on the button about media training. Many people think Joe Duffy is a buffoon, he’s anything but. He’s a master media talent and very manipulative. He and his team know exactly how to push the buttons.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
The whole programme argued fast and loose with the truth.

Angry mobs do not care about the truth.

Do you think that the truth bothered the Brexit Campaign or Donald Trump for the last 4 years?

Brendan
Click to expand...
I believe you were deliberately set upon. When I get to Thursdays episode I’ll try and figure it out. I agree with Leper. But the good news is you went on, you did well, you were as far as I’m concerned the only person with any sense on the show. Not everybody is fooled by Joe Duffy and what he is at.
 
Bronte said:
Leper you’re not in any way insulting. It’s better BB knows how he comes across. You’re bang on the button about media training. Many people think Joe Duffy is a buffoon, he’s anything but. He’s a master media talent and very manipulative. He and his team know exactly how to push the buttons.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Bronte. I'm more at ease now because I thought I was alienating people.

I would add (another life lesson earned):-
Never believe in your own popularity (incidentally is the first rule of media training). People interested in Joe Duffy and his talents would well be advised to watch him, listen to him, learn from him and cotton onto his thoughts and draw up a SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Threats) analysis of one's own performance.

Devour this forum on the matter, ignore the Boards.ie equivalent gather the Wheat and Chaff. Make sure you don't heed the Chaff.
 
I've just read this entire thread again. There's some great stuff here and to us reading it, it's great to see the presentation as I drink coffee from a machine I paid three and a half grand for 3 years ago. That machine sent our offspring onto the ceiling from which I had to scrape them down. €3.5K on a coffee machine dad! - What were you thinking? Translation:- You're spending our inheritance. They didn't see or care that the machine is saving us money as Mrs Lep and I would always buy coffee every time we go out. The machine has paid for itself over and over, but they don't see that. Never forget the obvious!

It's the same on a topical radio show. You have all the facts and you're famous for five minutes (or less, seldom more) of the show. The radio presenter is famous before the programme comes on air. (Score:- Joe 1 - 0 Guest). He even dictates the course of the show. You are on your "tobler," the presenter has a back-up team who've worked their butt off to ensure the presenter looks good no matter what (their jobs and perhaps their media future depends on this?). They continue to work hard during the show and continue to advise the presenter. (Joe 2 - 0 Guest). And we haven't even started!

What's Joe got to do? Present and fill 1 hour 18 minutes from somewhere and keep as many listeners as possible "entertained." Joe needs talk. Written cold facts if presented blandly to an audience you do not know might as well be used toilet paper. Like I said in earlier posts "Presentation is Everything." "We've the most transparent radio show on earth and anybody can participate" says Joe. Believe that and you might as well be watching The Flintstones.

Where do you get slotted in? Joe allows you to participate whenever he wishes. This might or might not be after some human interest story which has nothing to do with Life Loans. Advertising pays Joe's wages (bottom line) - he must allow ads (Get over it!), but he decides when and for how long. Translation:- Joe and his team dictate who and when can contribute. (Duh!). (But it's still Joe 2 - 0 Guest). But, you're defending even before you start.

Finally, you get to your presentation. Everything you've worked towards depends on your first 25 seconds (or less) of talk. Can you get their attention? Can you get 100% of your points across? Can you get them to doubt Joe's comments? I think not (Joe 4 - 0 Guest). And we're just 30 seconds into the game.

What can you do to gain an advantage? - Get Media Trained or at least Become Media Savvy. (Now you can score a goal and before the game begins). You might even be near a 1 - 1 score start.

Coming onto a forum the following day and saying I got such-and-such right is too late. You have got to get it right on the moment, otherwise Joe's audience thinks you're fobbing and of course Joe informs them they're the greatest people on earth and they believe it. (It's probably 6 - 0 now!).

Training for Media presentation is not difficult. Listen to any RTE Radio 1 presenter (Shay is good and he's on air at 5.30am). He knows his audience and plays to them. Marty Whelan on Lyric FM is good - he knows his audience like Daniel O'Donnell knows middle age Irish womankind. That's their forte; they know and use their audience. Listen to some pathetic FM jocks; even they too know their audience. The common denominator is they are all selling talk and they can do it in their sleep. They don't have to present hard facts, they supply talk that can be listened to easily. They're professionals and what they do beats work every time. Listen to them, learn from them and ignore them at your peril.

But, get them on-side and suddenly you're scoring again. Any kind of financial advice is bland. My brother (accountant) keeps telling me "it ain't the figures, it's how I present them" or from Mr Carson "It's the way I tell 'em!"

Like it or not you get only one chance to make a first impression. That's gone but ensure your next impression is better - Get to know how the media works and use it to your advantage. Then Joe and his audience will listen to you with concern and not the other way round.

Summary:- Presentation Matters! - If you can't get your mind around this, ask Ben Dunne who'll inform you it's not the shirt that's being sold - it's the box.
 
Last edited:
Duke of Marmalade said:
It’s not just banks exploit vulnerable seniors. I’ve heard tell of companies selling them 3.5 grand coffee machines:mad:
Click to expand...
It’s his hard earned money to do with it what he wishes. We are going to buy a 50 inch TV this week so we can have the Netflix button on it direct. Also going to buy Alexa, plus a Philips light bulb that you can set to come on as if it were the sun. Can’t go anywhere or do anything so might as well spend the children’s inheritance. This past year has made me realise we’re only here a short time, would love to have the problem of the elderly callers on Joe who were upset at living too long!
 
Leper said:
€3.5K on a coffee machine dad! - What were you thinking? Translation:- You're spending our inheritance. They didn't see or care that the machine is saving us money as
Click to expand...

I know you were probably only joking but I'm not so sold on the 'greedy children' thing that keeps getting thrown out as a explanation for a lot of this stuff.

Has everyone really brought up such selfish children? Can a person not be indignant for feeling that a parent was taken advantage of, whether justified or not, without being labelled greedy and thinking of the inheritance!

I could give many examples of where my father spent money badly over the years, money management was definitely not his thing and I used to be annoyed that it was being spent unwisely but none of that feeling came from thinking about any inheritance. Just two years ago he had a small job done to his house which he organised himself and he was most defiitely fleeced, now they did a good job and he was very happy with it but paid at the very least double what it should have cost. It still irritates me if I think about it that he was taken advantage of probably due to his age in my opinion.

So would anyone listening to me giving out about these things assume I was a greedy child just worried about my inheritance? I paid many of my father's bills over the past 30+ yrs from my own income when he was unable to work and his own income was insufficient as did other family members

There was never a thought to an inheritance by any of us, we just adored him.
 
Last edited:
No amount of media training can make you a match for Joe. It is like he is wearing a shoulder strap of ammunition, a belt full of hand grenades and a sub machine gun. The best you can hope for is to be trained in unarmed combat. Of course BoI would refuse such an unequal contest.
And yet Joe lost this latest battle. Without Brendan there would be no opposition at all and it is thanks to him that Joe did lose.
But he also lost because he seriously misjudged the parameters. He thought it was the banks versus the vulnerable elderly. This was going to be a penalty kick. But as is obvious from the posts on AAM and Boards.ie it is perceived as the banks versus the greedy kids. And in the populist stakes the greedy kids rank even lower than the banks.
 
1. There you go again lads. You jump in thinking all about the coffee machine is negative and expensive. Read my lips:- Our coffee machine was worth every cent and I can drink coffee every bit as good as the stuff I buy in Spanish cafés. Furthermore, it is saving us a fortune as we no longer drink the stuff in Irish cafés like we used to do. The machine has paid for itself even after electric use and coffee and milk bought. But, you like your Lidl machine so drive on.
2. Somebody said Joe Duffy lost the battle on the show about Life Loans. What show was this person listening to? Again read my lips:- Joe won the contest hands down. [When I'm picked up off the floor, I need a cup of coffee]. Let's not reduce the thread to the Emperor's New Clothes.
3. Tomorrow morning, when Joe's researchers are concentrating on the week ahead show, they'll probably read this thread and get buoyed up somewhat. Don't be surprised if Joe has a peep too. I bet Joe is giving them good quality coffee. Joe ain't stupid, you know! [I can nearly hear the research team saying "Thanks Lep"].
4. I note when these posts were removed from the original thread Brendan (I hope I can still call him Brendan) said Leper "thinks" that Media Training is necessary for him. With respect, let me say, you bet your rootin' tootin' bottom dollar you need media training. I am not going to press-gang anybody into such training, but why sell yourself short in the media when you can win most discussions and make life easier? Furthermore, I bet with media training Brendan will enhance his profile and earnings. Before anybody asks:- Hey Lep, why aren't you a millionaire? - I can say most of life's horses I backed lost. I wish they won, but c'est la vie!
5. If I were a Financial Advisor and starting out, I'd be first in line for media training. If Eddie Hobbs can do it, anybody can. I've attended some of Eddie's seminars along with many in the audience who had their head buried in the Sunday Times in case somebody would see them. But, Eddie tells a great story, knows when to look over the parapet and more importantly knows when to lie low.

. . . . now for a cup of decent coffee before the Duke arrives with the grandchildren.
 
Hi Leper,

Telll us more about the machine. I’m genuinely interested and in the market for a “bean to cup” one to replace my existing Nespresso one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top