Alcohol Minimum Pricing

Status
Not open for further replies.
Leo said:
It might be possible somewhere like Sweden with a very limited alcohol retail environment, but not where we have north of 12,000 outlets.
Click to expand...
Yes but MUP is only really binding for off-sales, and there are a little less than 2,000 off licenses in existence.

The technical challenges aren't that high compared to the normal penetration of IT systems across all areas of life.
 
Leo said:
It wouldn't surprise me, wasn't tainted illicit ethanol suspected as the cause of death of a couple in Cavan last year?
Click to expand...
That would be one worry, some chancer selling bottles of paint stripper.
MUP may change the drinking patterns of teenagers who haven't really started yet. They may even buy alcohol free stuff just for the image of drinking, like vaping, but in cans
 
losttheplot said:
That would be one worry, some chancer selling bottles of paint stripper.
MUP may change the drinking patterns of teenagers who haven't really started yet. They may even buy alcohol free stuff just for the image of drinking, like vaping, but in cans
Click to expand...
Unlikely. The ban on below cost selling was only removed in Ireland in 2005. Before that, drink wasn't that cheap and it didn't stop teenagers then from buying drink or robbing it from their parents drink cabinet.
 
Duty and vat on the duty of a slab of Guinness = €16
Price of a slab of Guinness pre- xmas €15


It was this type of below cost promotion that meant there was no real option left.

Proposal was supported by all main parties incl sf
 
peemac said:
Duty and vat on the duty of a slab of Guinness = €16
Price of a slab of Guinness pre- xmas €15


It was this type of below cost promotion that meant there was no real option left.

Proposal was supported by all main parties incl sf
Click to expand...
It was 15 euros to clear stock because MUP was coming in. You can hardly argue MUP was needed for a special offer available for about 5 percent of the entire year.

If the concern was below cost selling this could have been remedied at the stroke of a pen at any point in the last few years.
 
odyssey06 said:
It was 15 euros to clear stock because MUP was coming in. You can hardly argue MUP was needed for a special offer available for about 5 percent of the entire year.

If the concern was below cost selling this could have been remedied at the stroke of a pen at any point in the last few years.
Click to expand...
2 for €30 in Nov & Dec 2020. Consistent sub €20 offers year round.
 
There seems to be alot of opposition to this MUP now, very few people seemed to be aware it was coming in a few days ago. Has the government seriously underestimated the opposition to this . Is this the one Nanny state measure too far that has finally pushed people over the edge . What happens at the end of the year when they try and increase carbon taxes again on fuel prices . They keep telling us that the inflation is just "transitory" yet they are the very ones that are ensuring that inflation stays endemic with all these new restrictions and taxes
 
I think its a great initiative. It makes drink prohibitively expensive for young people and will inexorably lead to reduction in consumption. Theres no more disgusting and sad sight than a gang of late teens/ 20 somethings coming out the supermarket with a few bottles of vodka and a box of 20 bottles and/ or a slab. Up to now dirt cheap- not so anymore. Its tough but the state needs to force a change in habits much the same as smokers have been hounded for past 30 years and then it banned in pubs etc. Well done for this brave move!!
 
Btw I have young teenagers and am happier that drink will be much more expensive when they start out socialising. 4-5 euro bottles of wine in Lidl and tge other supermkts. Its just gross and the drinks industry / supermkts should be ashamed of itself for punting this poison at dirt cheap prices. E g. Lidl sponsoring Ladies GAA to put a nice healthy image on itself while selling cheap imitation Smirnoff to teens... its madness.
 
deanpark said:
Btw I have young teenagers and am happier that drink will be much more expensive when they start out socialising. 4-5 euro bottles of wine in Lidl and tge other supermkts. Its just gross and the drinks industry / supermkts should be ashamed of itself for punting this poison at dirt cheap prices. E g. Lidl sponsoring Ladies GAA to put a nice healthy image on itself while selling cheap imitation Smirnoff to teens... its madness.
Click to expand...
Teenagers can now buy wine at €7.20 per bottle (not a great increase in price from €6.00). Those of us who know something about alcohol consumption will inform you the affects for drinking too much wine are worse than from stout/beer.

And us law abiding, responsible people who used to pay €7.00 for a bottle of wine must now pay €11.00 for the same brand. To me it looks like the innocent are being punished for the guilty.

Earlier on this thread somebody said nobody saw this coming. I did. Some months ago alcohol items were removed from supermarket tokens. That was another detrimental attack on household spending. Once again the innocent bore the brunt.
 
peemac said:
Duty and vat on the duty of a slab of Guinness = €16


Price of a slab of Guinness pre- xmas €15
Click to expand...

I don't think there is below-cost selling here.

Alcohol: 12L
Strength: 4.3%
Excise rate: €22.55 per hectolitre of alcohol
VAT: 23%

12*4.3%*€22.55*1.23=€14.31

Have I missed anything?
 
deanpark said:
I think its a great initiative. It makes drink prohibitively expensive for young people and will inexorably lead to reduction in consumption. Theres no more disgusting and sad sight than a gang of late teens/ 20 somethings coming out the supermarket with a few bottles of vodka and a box of 20 bottles and/ or a slab. Up to now dirt cheap- not so anymore. Its tough but the state needs to force a change in habits much the same as smokers have been hounded for past 30 years and then it banned in pubs etc. Well done for this brave move!!
Click to expand...
No more disgusting and sad sight? I think you have a look in the mirror if that's your view of young people.

Do you find it even more disgusting to think that in France and Spain and Germany there are €3 wines and 50c beers?

Consumption has reduced over the previous decades, and alcohol here was already among the most expensive in the EU. If higher prices was the answer we'd already have solved it.

Your claims about LIDL selling 'dirt cheap' 'poison' is complete nonsense, utterly without merit or foundation. You'll have to explain how LIDL's version of Smirnoff is anymore 'poisonous' then the branded product. And the branded product is affected by this also as it can no longer be discounted - which it was. Is that 'poison' too?
And you know the Smirnoff sold in pubs, which you seem unconcerned about. You realise pubs and off licence associations were in favour of this move. Don't they sell 'poison' too?
 
Last edited:
odyssey06 said:
No more disgusting and sad sight? I think you have a look in the mirror if that's your view of young people.

Do you find it even more disgusting to think that in France and Spain and Germany there are €3 wines and 50c beers?

Consumption has reduced over the previous decades, and alcohol here was already among the most expensive in the EU. If higher prices was the answer we'd already have solved it.

Your claims about LIDL selling 'dirt cheap' 'poison' is complete nonsense, utterly without merit or foundation. You'll have to explain how LIDL's version of Smirnoff is anymore 'poisonous' then the branded product. And the branded product is affected by this also as it can no longer be discounted - which it was. Is that 'poison' too?
And you know the Smirnoff sold in pubs, which you seem unconcerned about. You realise pubs and off licence associations were in favour of this move. Don't they sell 'poison' too?
Click to expand...
I know you've got 3,500 + posts and want to get into a big drawn out debate. They're my views. Not interested in yours particularly. I believe the measure will drive down alcohol consumption. Good for society. Tough on pockets.
 
odyssey06 said:
If higher prices was the answer we'd already have solved it.
Click to expand...
This is it in a nutshell, higher prices just means it's more expensive to purchase and consume
If I remember correctly putting up the cost of a packet of cigarettes never really had an effect on smokers consumption
The only thing that really had an effect on consumption was the smoking ban and it changed a lot of peoples views on smoking including my own
and I feel that they should have continued the momentum and gone for a nationwide ban a few years later

Could something similar be done with alcohol or do we just leave thing the way they are??
 
Cervelo said:
This is it in a nutshell, higher prices just means it's more expensive to purchase and consume
If I remember correctly putting up the cost of a packet of cigarettes never really had an effect on smokers consumption
The only thing that really had an effect on consumption was the smoking ban and it changed a lot of peoples views on smoking including my own
and I feel that they should have continued the momentum and gone for a nationwide ban a few years later

Could something similar be done with alcohol or do we just leave thing the way they are??
Click to expand...
Our overall consumption is falling, we don't need measures to reduce it at an overall level, and the correlation between overall consumption and alcohol impacts are weak if at all.
I think the equivalent of the smoking ban for drinking was more robust drink driving laws?
I'm not sure about an overall smoking ban, I think it would just drive it underground, I know NZ have looked at age limits but they have far more control over their imports - that's a topic for another thread.

Some jurisdictions have banned big rounds in pubs, you can only buy 2-3 drinks at a time. That might slow things down a bit if there's a "binge" concern.
Or, if there's a concern about certain age groups, then 18-21 year old could buy off sales but say no spirits.
Some jurisdictions allow under 18s to drink in pubs and restaurants but only wine or beer i.e. at a younger age than off sales.
If there's a concern about anti social behaviour and alcohol, then how about policing it like our eu neighbours?
All of these would be more targeted than this measure.

An anti-alcohol measure cheerleaded by pubs which lines the pockets of makers and sellers of alcohol?
To me it is anti-competitive as much if not more than it is anti-alcohol, though it has cheerleaders on that side also. They can't all be right.
 
Last edited:
odyssey06 said:
Some jurisdictions have banned big rounds in pubs, you can only buy 2-3 drinks at a time. That might slow things down a bit if there's a "binge" concern.
Or, if there's a concern about certain age groups, then 18-21 year old could buy off sales but say no spirits.
Some jurisdictions allow under 18s to drink in pubs and restaurants but only wine or beer i.e. at a younger age than off sales.
If there's a concern about anti social behaviour and alcohol, then how about policing it like our eu neighbours?
All of these would be more targeted than this measure.
Click to expand...
I'd be thinking somewhere along these lines so restriction rather than ban might be the way forward, not a time restriction but a restriction on where alcohol can be purchased and consumed.
I've no problem with alcohol and a person drinking themselves silly, I've done more times to myself than I can remember but I've always had an issue with alcohol been consumed at concerts and sporting events where there are huge crowds and the chances of antisocial behaviour increase
 
How have the government managed to get this by the EU anti competition laws. Scotland got slapped down by the EU court back in early 2016 when they tried to introduce back then.
Of course because the UK left the EU they were able to ignore the ruling in 2018.
Have the government zealots simply ignored this ruling?
 
joe sod said:
How have the government managed to get this by the EU anti competition laws. Scotland got slapped down by the EU court back in early 2016 when they tried to introduce back then.
Of course because the UK left the EU they were able to ignore the ruling in 2018.
Have the government zealots simply ignored this ruling?
Click to expand...
The ruling was a bit of a kick to touch...
They said MUP was anti-competitive in a way that excise was not.

The European court ruling said: "The Court of Justice considers that the effect of the Scottish legislation is significantly to restrict the market, and this might be avoided by the introduction of a tax measure designed to increase the price of alcohol instead of a measure imposing a minimum price per unit of alcohol... The court states that it is ultimately for the national court to determine whether measures other than that provided for by the Scottish legislation, such as increased taxation on alcoholic drinks, are capable of protecting human life and health as effectively as the current legislation, while being less restrictive of trade in those products within the EU."

The Scottish courts approved it, saying they did not consider that it breaches EU law... but it's not clear to what extent 'measures other' were assessed.

www.bbc.co.uk

Supreme Court backs Scottish minimum alcohol pricing

Scotland is set to be the first country in the world to establish a minimum price per unit of alcohol.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top