Exactly, as Fantana said, you don't need a diverter. You're better off heating the water on the cheap nighttime electricity and selling your excess electric on the FIT.
Advice on PV panels and system.
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rustbucket
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1. Yes absolutely. Have not regretted it. Cost is an issue but offset for me by generating green electricity
2. No not currently unless financially viable. Battery tech not quite there yet imho and they are expensive. Also depends on type of usage. Prefer to divert excess to grid
3. Yes definitely. Have not had to heat water for 9 months of the year for last 2-3 years.
Other advice.
1. Max out panels if possible.
2. Put in an oversized inverter if not maxing out panels now to allow for additional panels in future. Make sure it’s capable of adding batteries at later point.
3. If not installing EV charger now make sure you at least wire up for one and firm up future location
2.5 years on and I still think Solar panels are the best thing I ever bought. When I first got them, I had calculated the payback at around 8 years, but it is now looking like the payback will be less than 5 years. I would definitely do it over again, only difference is I would max out the number of panels.
Batteries have come down in price significantly in the last 5 years, but I think they will come down some more in the next 3 years. Personally I'm holding off on them until they are a little cheaper. However, even now, if you can avail of the cheap 9c night rate, batteries will pay for themselves.
There is a good website here where you can calculate the savings https://garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
Diverter.... I got the diverter, and there is a weird pleasure in having piping hot free water, or solar water as I call it.
But financially, (at the moment) it doesn't make sense. If you can heat your hot water at night at 10c and export solar during the day at 18c, then the diverter is pointless.
However, that pricing dynamic might not always persist. And to make use of it, you need a smart meter and a relatively well insulated hot water tank. If you don't have a smart meter, you get nothing for your export, so diverter is worth while then.
By the way, I have an old factory insulated cooper tank, but I found wrapping an old duvet around it seriously reduced the amount of electricity I was using.
Batteries have come down in price significantly in the last 5 years, but I think they will come down some more in the next 3 years. Personally I'm holding off on them until they are a little cheaper. However, even now, if you can avail of the cheap 9c night rate, batteries will pay for themselves.
There is a good website here where you can calculate the savings https://garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
Diverter.... I got the diverter, and there is a weird pleasure in having piping hot free water, or solar water as I call it.
But financially, (at the moment) it doesn't make sense. If you can heat your hot water at night at 10c and export solar during the day at 18c, then the diverter is pointless.
However, that pricing dynamic might not always persist. And to make use of it, you need a smart meter and a relatively well insulated hot water tank. If you don't have a smart meter, you get nothing for your export, so diverter is worth while then.
By the way, I have an old factory insulated cooper tank, but I found wrapping an old duvet around it seriously reduced the amount of electricity I was using.
Got solar panels in recently. A quick calculation of pay back is around 5-5.5 years, depending on where rates go in the future (both unit price and micro-generation rate). If you have the cash flow, it offers a good rate of return as opposed to the deposit rates offered by banks at the minute.
Decided against the battery for now as the payback wasn't justifiable. However, I can add a battery in the future. For now, the micro-generation rate is only around €0.10/kWh lower than unit price paid from the grid, and the battery size I got quoted was 5kW so it would take a long time to pay for itself.
Yes But, that assumes that you are using the battery to store solar instead of exporting it. Which as you rightly point out has a long payback.
But if instead you charge the battery at €0.10/kWh overnight, then use this to offset against the €0.50/kWh daytime rate, the annual savings are pretty substantial. In fact they possibly make a battery worthwhile all on its own even without solar.
Just to add to the topic I have had quotes for 14 solar panels on a south facing roof. the 5KWh battery is €4850 extra. I am in the process of buying the house now so I have no details on energy usage but its a B3 rated house built 15 years ago so it should be efficient enough. The roof already has solar panels for hot water on it so I am wondering if its better to retain these or to move the hot water to the PV panels and decommission. Whether or not to buy the battery is also something I'm unsure about.
That's a steep price for a 5KWh battery; mine cost over €1,000 less, so get more quotes before taking the plunge.
As AJAM states above, if you can use night rate electricity to charge your battery the payback period will be a lot shorter. Six months in, I'm delighted that I bought one.
Last year I asked the same question as you about removing solar water heating panels and was advised (on Boards.ie) that as solar water heating panels are a much more efficient way to heat water, I should not remove them. But I have space on my roof for both types of panel, whereas others may not be as fortunate.
EDIT: I am an a day/night non-smart electricity package which meets my requirements and consumption pattern very well.
Prior to installing my PV system including battery I was using roughly 45% day rate units and 55% night rate units, but these days, the ratio is a lot closer to 10% day/90% night. That's where most of my savings are coming from.
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Fogstar Energy 15.5Kwh 48V Battery
A high-performance 15.5kWh battery designed for UK conditions, featuring intelligent heating, plug-and-play inverter compatibility, an intuitive LCD touchscreen interface, premium Grade A EVE cells, scalable energy storage,
www.fogstar.co.uk
This is coming out shortly, could get it shipped into NI and you’d have a 15kwh battery for less than €3k
Definitely worth considering.Fogstar Energy 15.5Kwh 48V Battery
A high-performance 15.5kWh battery designed for UK conditions, featuring intelligent heating, plug-and-play inverter compatibility, an intuitive LCD touchscreen interface, premium Grade A EVE cells, scalable energy storage,
This is coming out shortly, could get it shipped into NI and you’d have a 15kwh battery for less than €3k
I have had 2 quotes so far and battery price was the same for both. there is a bit of learning to be done with Day and night rates and how the electricity usage has to be managed for optimal results. To be honest I have never taken much notice of these things up to now. I will be living in a house out in the country so I have plenty roof space for both sets of panels
I have PV since March
1. Yes get a battery acts as a buffer even in summer when the clouds pass over.
2. Get a EV rate and do all the heavy lifting you can in that cheapest rate including charging battery to 100% and heating water with a cheap timer.
3. Get as many panels as you can fit afford, get as bit a battery as you can afford.
You don't need an EV to get an EV rate
charging battery every night means FIT kicks in quicker
Battery allows load shift during the lean winter months. (charge battery cheap then use battery when price is high.
Pinergy are dong ex vat
5c 2 to 5 am (charge battery / car, heat water, run dishwasher etc.)
38c rest of the day (full battery buffers this especially in the winter)
25c feed in (was suprised at this long may it last)
Maybe not the best but working for me at the moment.
I have 4.8kwh battery, I would love double that, possibly a job for next year.
My experience so far
8 months I will make a profit, even with sending some PV to the car instead of FIT.
The other 4 months I have loads of credit,
Then the Gov throws in 450 for this year too.
1. Yes get a battery acts as a buffer even in summer when the clouds pass over.
2. Get a EV rate and do all the heavy lifting you can in that cheapest rate including charging battery to 100% and heating water with a cheap timer.
3. Get as many panels as you can fit afford, get as bit a battery as you can afford.
You don't need an EV to get an EV rate
charging battery every night means FIT kicks in quicker
Battery allows load shift during the lean winter months. (charge battery cheap then use battery when price is high.
Pinergy are dong ex vat
5c 2 to 5 am (charge battery / car, heat water, run dishwasher etc.)
38c rest of the day (full battery buffers this especially in the winter)
25c feed in (was suprised at this long may it last)
Maybe not the best but working for me at the moment.
I have 4.8kwh battery, I would love double that, possibly a job for next year.
My experience so far
8 months I will make a profit, even with sending some PV to the car instead of FIT.
The other 4 months I have loads of credit,
Then the Gov throws in 450 for this year too.
Mister Fox
New Member
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Hi everyone.
Thanks for this thread. It's been very useful as a prospective solar panel investor!
We're looking at making the move next year and researching a few options. We had a visit last week from Activ8 (owned by SSE Airtricity). The sales rep looked at usage on previous bills and advised on options best suited to our situation. No pressure and, overall, they were very helpful.
Quote for 14 panels = ~€10k net, where they factor in the grant ... so that we don't have to pay, then claim back.
It was explained to us that their system does NOT include a battery. Instead, it comprises (a) the panels, (b) a solar inverter, and (c) a hot water divert. We were told that batteries are generally inefficient and that the Activ8 'virtual' system was a better solution. With their system, electricity is drawn from the panels on an on-demand basis. Here is how I understand how it works:
Is anyone else aware of this or has spoken recently to Activ8? Now that I think of it, I am not sure if this is an exclusive Activ8/Airticity arrangement that will perpetually tie us into Airticity. Any help/advice much appreciated. It feels like now is a good time to invest in solar (for many different reasons) but the options are mind-boggling.
I hope that all makes sense. This is my first post to the AAM forum, so thanks too to Brendan et al for creating such a great resource.
Thanks for this thread. It's been very useful as a prospective solar panel investor!
We're looking at making the move next year and researching a few options. We had a visit last week from Activ8 (owned by SSE Airtricity). The sales rep looked at usage on previous bills and advised on options best suited to our situation. No pressure and, overall, they were very helpful.
Quote for 14 panels = ~€10k net, where they factor in the grant ... so that we don't have to pay, then claim back.
It was explained to us that their system does NOT include a battery. Instead, it comprises (a) the panels, (b) a solar inverter, and (c) a hot water divert. We were told that batteries are generally inefficient and that the Activ8 'virtual' system was a better solution. With their system, electricity is drawn from the panels on an on-demand basis. Here is how I understand how it works:
- If the panels generate unused energy, it is sold back to the grid, which puts us in credit.
- Conversely, if we need electricity but, at that time, the panels are not generating energy, we pay for the energy we need.
Is anyone else aware of this or has spoken recently to Activ8? Now that I think of it, I am not sure if this is an exclusive Activ8/Airticity arrangement that will perpetually tie us into Airticity. Any help/advice much appreciated. It feels like now is a good time to invest in solar (for many different reasons) but the options are mind-boggling.
I hope that all makes sense. This is my first post to the AAM forum, so thanks too to Brendan et al for creating such a great resource.
Scoobydoobydoo
Registered User
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- 57
Hi everyone.
Thanks for this thread. It's been very useful as a prospective solar panel investor!
We're looking at making the move next year and researching a few options. We had a visit last week from Activ8 (owned by SSE Airtricity). The sales rep looked at usage on previous bills and advised on options best suited to our situation. No pressure and, overall, they were very helpful.
Quote for 14 panels = ~€10k net, where they factor in the grant ... so that we don't have to pay, then claim back.
It was explained to us that their system does NOT include a battery. Instead, it comprises (a) the panels, (b) a solar inverter, and (c) a hot water divert. We were told that batteries are generally inefficient and that the Activ8 'virtual' system was a better solution. With their system, electricity is drawn from the panels on an on-demand basis. Here is how I understand how it works:
The idea being, the credit built up from the panels offsets those times we don't have it to hand. (The sales rep reviewed recent Oct/Nov bills and said that we would have more than enough from solar to cover peak month electricity usage.) Also, any excess credit that we build up can be used against our gas too.
- If the panels generate unused energy, it is sold back to the grid, which puts us in credit.
- Conversely, if we need electricity but, at that time, the panels are not generating energy, we pay for the energy we need.
Is anyone else aware of this or has spoken recently to Activ8? Now that I think of it, I am not sure if this is an exclusive Activ8/Airticity arrangement that will perpetually tie us into Airticity. Any help/advice much appreciated. It feels like now is a good time to invest in solar (for many different reasons) but the options are mind-boggling.
I hope that all makes sense. This is my first post to the AAM forum, so thanks too to Brendan et al for creating such a great resource.
Based on the limited info provided, that price is uncompetitive.
Some questions that need to be asked:
What direction are the panels facing?
What kwp will be provided. E.g. 14 x 410w panels is very different to 14 x 225w panels.
What size/type/make inverter. You will need a hybrid inverter if you go the battery route.
Is the complete install included. E.g scaffolding hire, if required
Is the cost of BER included
Mister Fox
New Member
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Thanks for that. South-facing panels. Kwp will be 14 x 450w. Inverter type make/size - need to check. Quote covers the complete install and BER rating.
Scoobydoobydoo
Registered User
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Stick your details into this calc. It will give you a value for money estimate
I would also suggest have a look at the boards.ie site, they are very active group
Renewable Energies
Sustainable and renewable energies such as Solar Panels Geothermal Heating and Wood Pellet Boilers etc
www.boards.ie
Mister Fox
New Member
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Excellent. Appreciate your help @Scoobydoobydoo.
Blackrock1
Registered User
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from reading between the lines on boards.ie that installer isnt recommended.
clinteastwood
Registered User
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There is an excellent company in Enniskillen search "Enniskillen Boys" on boards.ie. They are usually 2k less than competitors.
2022 , I got 18*450W ( 5 & 13) on East/South axis of my roof, 5kW battery, Eddi , BER all for 9k (3k for grant), so 12k ex grant. This included VAT.
Expect this is ~14k no more today, esp with no VAT on panels, with 2,400 grant to be subtracted off ergo 11,600 net. ..
They have installed >10 places I know of in Cork area. all happy campers.
recommend battery if you wish to harvest sun when clouds pass or if you are not home. The Utility FIT is only ~50% of what you buy back from them later.
Re : November 2023, yield so far is 206kWh, you are v unlikely to power your needs from this (national average is c.5000kWh per annum (~500kWh/month especially in winter).
Yield since Apr 2022 is 10,259kWh , at 40c per unit this is c.4000Euro.
House Elec consumption went from 4,800kWh/annum to 2,100kWh/annum in 2022.
2022 , I got 18*450W ( 5 & 13) on East/South axis of my roof, 5kW battery, Eddi , BER all for 9k (3k for grant), so 12k ex grant. This included VAT.
Expect this is ~14k no more today, esp with no VAT on panels, with 2,400 grant to be subtracted off ergo 11,600 net. ..
They have installed >10 places I know of in Cork area. all happy campers.
recommend battery if you wish to harvest sun when clouds pass or if you are not home. The Utility FIT is only ~50% of what you buy back from them later.
Re : November 2023, yield so far is 206kWh, you are v unlikely to power your needs from this (national average is c.5000kWh per annum (~500kWh/month especially in winter).
Yield since Apr 2022 is 10,259kWh , at 40c per unit this is c.4000Euro.
House Elec consumption went from 4,800kWh/annum to 2,100kWh/annum in 2022.
There's also an active (and helpful) group on Facebook and, from memory (I haven't called in for a while) they weren't too keen on the Activ8 offering either.