Act of Union partially repealed

[Duke of Marmalade]

My 'fixation' with British soldiers not being prosecuted is no doubt one central reason for the continuation of the conflict for so long.

I recommend you listen to that Danny Morrison interview. It is actually very informative. The pointless continuation of the conflict had nothing to do with prosecuting British soldiers. It was in pursuit of a 32 county Republic and yes to get the British out of Ireland.
As Danny explained, by the 1990s the IRA had been brought to a stalemate. Moreover the Hunger Strikes had given the IRA a political foothold. Danny, Gerry, Marty saw that it would be better to pursue the Trojan Horse strategy as in effect the armed struggle was going nowhere.
Peace Process they called it, even went on the conflict resolution world lecture tour.
Pure strategic call and one which from their viewpoint has paid off in spades, not least getting their mates pardoned for some despicable crimes.
These guys would chuckle up to Ian Paisley despite his past in encouraging sectarian murderers. The failure to prosecute a British soldier doesn’t faze them.

 

[WolfeTone]

The pointless continuation of the conflict had nothing to do with prosecuting British soldiers. It was in pursuit of a 32 county Republic and yes to get the British out of Ireland.

Oh c'mon Duke. Why did Republicans want to get British out of Ireland? Aside from all the historical baggage down through the centuries, at the time Morrison is referring to, it was because the British used the army to kill, to intern, torture, people from his community.
You know quite well that in large tracts of nationalist community any trust in the political system had evaporated. Even as late as 1985/6 SF would undergo another split after SF changed tack and would take seats in the Dáil, under Adams leadership. Morrison also deserves credit for promoting the political side.
The IRA was not a regular paid army. The prospect of the leadership simply given an instruction to cease all military operations without condition would have mostly likely signed a death sentence for those promoting it.
The ascendency of the political wing over the military wing was incumbent on one thing, that it could make a real difference. Those in favour of the political route needed to convince their base of its merits.
As much as Sands election was a triumph for the political wing, it also has to be said what did it achieve? Thatcher, would always pushed the "they have no mandate" line, let him die anyway. Along with the 9 others, the military wing would dominate the Republican leadership for some time yet.

 

[WolfeTone]

Even after IRA ceasefire the mantra from McGuinness was "no going back to Stormont". This was all to keep as many on board as possible and to seek as much concessions as possible from British/Unionist parties.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Oh c'mon Duke. Why did Republicans want to get British out of Ireland? Aside from all the historical baggage down through the centuries, at the time Morrison is referring to, it was because the British used the army to kill, to intern, torture, people from his community.

When asked about his views on the current UI debate he made it clear that his main aim was to get the British out of Ireland (of course followed by taking from the rich to give to the poor, always a good populist line).
I still visit NI and I am hearing no tales of killing, internment or torture, of course that could be because of intimidation.
Whenever rogue elements in the BA were present at the height of the Troubles Garret the Good's greatest fear was that the British would leave Ireland and us at the mercy of Danny, Gerry and Marty - I certainly shared that fear.
The British decide not to prosecute a soldier 50 years on. Do they glorify him? How many IRA murderers are commemorated and put on a pedestal by SF/IRA? A bit of perspective my dear Wolfie.
To borrow from another topic, Danny is part of a cult. A cult that has as its central mantra that partition and the British are the root of all evil, he kept referring to the 26 counties. "Take it down from the mast Irish traitors...it (the tricolour) will never belong to Free Staters". I doubt the millennial support for SF down here thinks in terms of the Free State.

 

[Purple]

True, in part. There are those who do fight legitimacy for a fundamental cause. Volunteering their lives for a greater good, or at least what they perceive to be a greater good.

It's their volunteering of other people's lives I have a problem with.

 

[WolfeTone]

I still visit NI and I am hearing no tales of killing, internment or torture, of course that could be because of intimidation.

?? Eh, the conflict is over. British troops are off the streets. The IRA is gone, or what remnants of it are left are probably best described as an old man's drinking club.

The British decide not to prosecute a soldier 50 years on. Do they glorify him?

I don't know, I think he still retains his anonymity? I know Lee Clegg, who was also convicted of murder was subsequently promoted to rank of corporal subsequent to his release.

This is what UK Defence Secretary had to say upon the news that soldier F would not be prosecuted.

“We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland,” “The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance.”

So yes, they do glorify their soldiers, even ones that committed crimes.

 

[WolfeTone]

How many IRA murderers are commemorated and put on a pedestal by SF/IRA? A bit of perspective my dear Wolfie.

Oh, its not just SF, Duke. The British commemorate their murderers, the loyalists commemorate their murderers, heck even the great and the good of Irish political establishment commemorate murderers and villians like Thomas Clarke, James Connolly and Michael Collins.

Its not a bit of perspective, it is all perspective.

 

[WolfeTone]

It's their volunteering of other people's lives I have a problem with.

No doubt. They could at least take their pay and pension off them as a sanction?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Oh c'mon Duke. Why did Republicans want to get British out of Ireland? Aside from all the historical baggage down through the centuries, at the time Morrison is referring to, it was because the British used the army to kill, to intern, torture, people from his community.

?? Eh, the conflict is over. British troops are off the streets. The IRA is gone, or what remnants of it are left are probably best described as an old man's drinking club.

We were discussing Danny who still sees the main issue as the British presence in Ireland. I thought you were agreeing with him but like me you see that he is well behind the times - my bad.

 

[WolfeTone]

We were discussing Danny who still sees the main issue as the British presence in Ireland.

I'm of the view that if the two-state solution could work, then by all means let it work.
But in my opinion, after 100yrs, it has not worked. There is considerable evidence to support that view, see 20th century.

Furthermore, the spectre of masked men has emerged once more at rallies addressed by 'moderate' Unionists. All because they wanted a Brexit, people of NI said no. UK gov negotiated a British style Brexit (as in, tough luck NI we are off) and apparently its Leo's and Simons fault.
But then again, they need a target to unleash their dissatisfaction at the cack-handed Brexit they plumped for and trying to attack invisible borders in the sea is tricky. So Leo, Simon are getting it right back by way of the British sausage.

Yes, enough is enough I think. Time to repeal the Act of Union in its entirety. Once it is gone, it is never coming back.

 

[Purple]

No doubt. They could at least take their pay and pension off them as a sanction?

I didn't know the IRA had a pension scheme. It explains why they have to keep all those protection rackets and all that smuggling going.

 

[WolfeTone]

I didn't know the IRA had a pension scheme

I was talking about British Army soldiers who murdered children on the streets of the UK and had their crimes covered up by the British State.
But I think you knew that anyway.

 

[Purple]

I was talking about British Army soldiers who murdered children on the streets of the UK and had their crimes covered up by the British State.
But I think you knew that anyway.

I was talking about the people who caused the British Army to be on the streets for 30 years.

 

[WolfeTone]

I was talking about the people who caused the British Army to be on the streets for 30 years.

I would certainly be in favour of taking the pay and pensions of any living British government ministers who thought that the best way to protect Catholic communities from being burnt out of their homes by loyalist supremacist mobs was to use British Army and intern, torture and kill the Catholics.

 

[Purple]

I would certainly be in favour of taking the pay and pensions of any living British government ministers who thought that the best way to protect Catholic communities from being burnt out of their homes by loyalist supremacist mobs was to use British Army and intern, torture and kill the Catholics.

So would I!
I can't think of any though.

And I wasn't talking about them, but you know that. I was talking about the child murdering terrorists who now want to run this country, despite trying to overthrow it and considering our police, judges, soldiers and politicians to be legitimate targets until it suited them to publicly present as thinking otherwise.

I have contempt for the Tory establishment who ruled Northern Ireland like a colony. I'd love to see them facing justice but it will never happen. The IRA, their political wing and their useful idiot fellow travellers I have far more contempt for. Democracy runs no deeper with the IRA and their Shinn Fein cronies as it does with the DUP. In both cases it is a means to an end and their ideology trumps the will of the people. Sinn Fein frighten me in the same way that any subversive extremists who have shown a willingness to murder their way into getting what they want frighten me.

Your posts on this topic, as an obviously intelligent and educated person, only reinforce that view because you are utterly blind to the failings of those you support. It's like listening to a well educated Christian talking about creationism; no amount of logical argument and no amount of facts will change your mind. That is also frightening.

 

[WolfeTone]

the child murdering terrorists who now want to run this country,

They already run the country. Didn't you hear, their soldiers are immune from prosecution for murdering children and nobody can do anything about it.
They completely run the show in that part of my country.

 

[Purple]

They already run the country. Didn't you hear, their soldiers are immune from prosecution for murdering children and nobody can do anything about it.
They completely run the show in that part of my country.

See...?

 

[WolfeTone]

See...

Exactly, its a bizarre logic you have that you are "afraid" of SF because of their associates in the IRA and the children they killed, but seem quite tolerant that another organisation that murders children, covers-up and offers protection against prosecution for child murder is in charge.

I have no truck with the IRA, my vote for SF is conditional on the premise that a political path is the way forward.

You don't really care about children being murdered, you only care which side murdered.

 

[Purple]

Exactly, its a bizarre logic you have that you are "afraid" of SF because of their associates in the IRA and the children they killed, but seem quite tolerant that another organisation that murders children, covers-up and offers protection against prosecution for child murder is in charge.

They aren't seeking to run this country.

I have no truck with the IRA, my vote for SF is conditional on the premise that a political path is the way forward.

They are inextricably linked to the IRA. Their elected members were and are in the IRA. It required wilful blindness to think otherwise.

 

[WolfeTone]

They aren't seeking to run this country.

Purple, with respect, in case you hadn't noticed, it was the fact that they were running this country in its entirety that kind of led to alot of Troubles throughout the last century.
Now I accept that the partitionist mindset is a legitimate one. I have stated that if the two state solution could work, then so be it. But I am persuaded, given the evidence of the last 100yrs, that it has not worked and that ideally the Proclaimation of 1916, an All Ireland Republic is the way forward.
Failing that, a reversion to the time an All Ireland was established through exclusively democratic and peaceful means would suffice.

They are inextricably linked to the IRA. Their elected members were and are in the IRA. It required wilful blindness to think otherwise.

I never said they weren't. But the conflict is over. A peace deal has been signed that was resoundingly backed by the people of Ireland North and South.
It's time to move on. Time to focus why the largest Unionist party still refuse to sign up to what the people voted for.

I have no truck with private armies, the IRA, UVF, etc are a cancer on Irish society. But they are borne out of one thing, the failure of British government to apply justice without fear or favour.
It's time they moved on. They are at it again, signing up to a Brexit deal only to start complaining about it afterwards.
When it comes to matters relating to Ireland I do not trust them one bit.