A rant about professional fees In Ireland.....

ClubMan said:
Hardly the majority of teachers though?
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An

No I am sure not but I know of woodwoek teachers that work in the building trade during the summer, irish teachers that work in the irish colleges during the summer and I am sure there are other examples out there. Anybody know any more?
 
I'd recommend a little on the matter first.
The average 'shelf life' of a secondary school teacher is about seven years, and falling.
 
Do any of those links refer to Irish teachers Dr Moriarty? They look like US links which is comparing apples and oranges since Irish teachers are amonst the best paid and work the least days of comparable countries.

I really doubt the shelf life of an Irish secondary teacher is 7 years, I personally know of none who've quit or changed career - I'd be surprised if the attrition rate was much higher than zero.
 
Here are some , then. Or have a read of the short article on the front page of [broken link removed] HSA/Irish Independent report? (.pdf format)
[FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD][...] according [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]to Department of Education [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]figures, in 2004 only 16pc of [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]teachers worked until the [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]retirement age of 65. Of the [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]484 teachers who retired that [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]year, 11pc (or 54 individuals) [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]did so due to poor health and [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]it is believed a significant [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]number of these cases were [/FONT][FONT=NewsMiller+FOZEPD]stress-related.[/FONT][/FONT]
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I last taught at secondary level in 1986/87, before — yes — getting out. I didn't want to end up like some I saw around me. I'd venture the job has probably become a lot more stressful in the intervening 20 years.
 
Somewhat ironically most of those links are to do with teaching handling stress, but I'd accept that teaching secondary school kids effectively is a challenging job.

I doubt 16% make it to the 65 retirement age just due to ill health or stress (as the II article seemingly implies), in reality the attractive retirement options for teachers from the age of 55 might have just a little to do with the figure.

Anyway this has nothing to do with professional fees....
 
Megan said:
An

No I am sure not but I know of woodwork teachers that work in the building trade during the summer, irish teachers that work in the irish colleges during the summer and I am sure there are other examples out there. Anybody know any more?
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Lots. As one of them said to me over a pint once, they have so much free time they need something more to occupy themselves rather than the odd grind. I know a PE teacher who is involved in teaching sailing in the summer, someone else who helps out in his brothers tourist shop, someone else who teaches surfing, someone else who helps out on his family farm etc etc.
In third level I know lots of people from Engineering and Architecture departments who do loads of nixers in the quantity surveying / house plans / supervising construction etc etc area. A fellow who works in the I.T. area does nixers fixing peoples computers, and another teacher does homeopathy.
 
Teachers are just one example of public servants who have a secure job with a good income and conditions etc. I don`t doubt that teaching can be a strssful job. Teachers are on a set salary and so don`t get the occasional wind fall fees and quite often very high fees that other professions charge.I also applaud professionals esp. teachers who spend their hols either playing,coaching or organising sporting activities.
 
sunrock said:
.I also applaud professionals esp. teachers who spend their hols either playing,coaching or organising sporting activities.
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First , playing : you applaud teachers who spend 3 months paid holidays playing sporting activities. They would not pay me to spend 3 months indulging in my sport, and they would not applaud me for doing so.

Those who I know who spend their summers teaching sport do it for the money.....nice cash business. I know of one case where a teacher in the summer competes in business against someone who tries to make a living out of the sport all year round, who pays his taxes and does not have a teachers salary to subsidise him in the summer. Not really a level playing pitch and nothing to really applaud about.
 
rabbit said:
I know of one case where a teacher in the summer competes in business against someone who tries to make a living out of the sport all year round, who pays his taxes and does not have a teachers salary to subsidise him in the summer. Not really a level playing pitch and nothing to really applaud about.
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This is absolutely fair competition, and of course the teach pays his taxes as well. The teacher's salary is not a subsidy. It is his salary - payment for work done. His work happens to be concentrated between September and May, and his salary is spread evenly over the year.

Given the level of enthusiasm expressed on this thread for the teacher's lifestyle, one might wonder why these posters aren't queueing up to join the profession?
 
RainyDay said:
This is absolutely fair competition, and of course the teach pays his taxes as well. The teacher's salary is not a subsidy. It is his salary - payment for work done. His work happens to be concentrated between September and May, and his salary is spread evenly over the year.

Given the level of enthusiasm expressed on this thread for the teacher's lifestyle, one might wonder why these posters aren't queueing up to join the profession?
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How do you know but we are some of the teachers that we are talking about. I am talking from first hand experience once removed.
 
RainyDay said:
This is absolutely fair competition, and of course the teach pays his taxes as well.
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Do all teachers pay tax on all of their summer cash work ?

RainyDay said:
The teacher's salary is not a subsidy. It is his salary - payment for work done. His work happens to be concentrated between September and May, and his salary is spread evenly over the year.
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I wish everyone else could "concentrate" their work between Sept.and May, and have loads of long holidays paid for by the taxpayer.



RainyDay said:
Given the level of enthusiasm expressed on this thread for the teacher's lifestyle, one might wonder why these posters aren't queueing up to join the profession?
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If everyone worked 9 to 4 with 3 months off in the summer, weeks off at xmas, plenty of bank holidays, great pensions, etc, what state would the state be in ?

In fairness to teachers, there are some good ones who deserve what they get, but I have come across some awful ones as well, who should have been fired long ago but of course were not nor could they have been.
 
I was referring to those people from all walks of life who coach kids in sports for no remuneration....a teacher involved with a local gaa or soccer club is an example.
Rabbit,what sport are you involved in. Obviously if you are in direct competition with a person who is offering services for free ,it is not the best position to be in.
 
sunrock said:
I was referring to those people from all walks of life who coach kids in sports for no remuneration....a teacher involved with a local gaa or soccer club is an example.
Rabbit,what sport are you involved in. Obviously if you are in direct competition with a person who is offering services for free ,it is not the best position to be in.
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I never said I was involved in a sport or in competition with anyone who is offering services for free. We are not talking about people giving their time for free. People from all walks of life give their time for free to various clubs etc. That has nothing to do with it. The teachers who do paid jobs in the summer and various nixers and grinds all year round do not do it for free. Read what I wrote more carefully. eg " I know a PE teacher who is involved in teaching sailing in the summer, someone else who helps out in his brothers tourist shop, someone else who teaches surfing, someone else who helps out on his family farm etc etc. "
 
RainyDay said:
I have absolutely no idea what this post means.
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Given the level of enthusiasm expressed on this thread for the teacher's lifestyle, one might wonder why these posters aren't queueing up to join the profession?

The above is what you had in your post.
I am just saying how do you know that some of the other posters are not teachers or family members of teachers. (So why would they be queueing up to join if they are allready there?)
You seem to employ that we dont know what we are talking about.
 
Oh to be a tribunal barrister!
Here we have a bunch of bigwigs discussing the corrupt politicians and buisnessmen of irelands recent past.
These professionals make a fortune for their pontificating and of course nothing much gets really done never mind anyone having to get some free time behind bars.
The way they are stringing out this gravy train ....god knows how many more years they`ll get out of it....is beginning to make the illicit gains of our top white collar crooks look like a chip shop owners ransom.
If you can`t beat them.....might as well join them.
 
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