20,000 deliberate defaulters

That is why I use the expression "deliberate defaulting". Many are simply choosing not to pay without thinking too much about it. They know that it will take years to lose their home so they spend money on instant gratification rather than worrying about what might happen in 5 years.
 
We have been statements being made on strategic defaulters.
I am not aware that there is any credible source to this.
I would be delighted to be cured of my ignorance.
Perhaps you would point me to the source.
 
Dear WizardDr,

1. Ask the Banks ? whoops, they don,t know ,yet they own the Mortgages.
2. Ask the Central Bank ? whoops see 1.
3. Ask me ? whoops I havn,t even a Mortgage.

Methinks it is so bad no-one wants to reveal it !,
 
It's a time like this that I always like to throw in a graph to really illustrate to some folk what they just cannot see in front of their noses
Quartz_Ireland_Chart1%25255B8%25255D.png


Now that's only up to late 2012 so would love to see an update.
And how would it look if we overlayed Unemployment rates on the above!!! Spain's crash was bigger than ours and their unemployment is much higher than ours.
But we don't have Strategic Defaulters in Ireland, no siree!
 
Delboy said:
It's a time like this that I always like to throw in a graph to really illustrate to some folk what they just cannot see in front of their noses
Quartz_Ireland_Chart1%25255B8%25255D.png


Now that's only up to late 2012 so would love to see an update.
And how would it look if we overlayed Unemployment rates on the above!!! Spain's crash was bigger than ours and their unemployment is much higher than ours.
But we don't have Strategic Defaulters in Ireland, no siree!
Click to expand...

How many of the countries in the graph, excluding Ireland, engaged in reckless lending with the full support of their respective central banks/ financial regulators? I would say there is very strong positive correlation between late stage mortgage arrears and reckless lending. Yet the borrower should pay the price for the collective madness that was the borrowing/lending during the celtic tiger - right?
 
Spain has had over 300,000 repossessions at this stage v's a few thousand here. I'd be fairly certain that there was plenty of 'reckless' lending over there as well.
Plus it takes 2 to tango in a lot of cases...manys the borrower included bonuses, potential rent a room income, sale of part of garden etc etc into their estimates when looking for a mortgage...and some even threw in the price of a new SUV, fancy holidays or plush furnishings as advised by expensive Interior Designers!!!
 
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I have no time for anyone who wishes to deny their own concious deliberation in signing up to a mortgage..

Added to that, I can completely understand why folk - like me, would strategically default on agreements made, in light of the 'present' circumstances in their life.

As i've stated before - the material preservation of a decent standard of living for my family comes WELL before any opinion my neighbors, banks or indeed the state may have.

Like it or not!
 
breakonthru said:
I have no time for anyone who wishes to deny their own concious deliberation in signing up to a mortgage..

Added to that, I can completely understand why folk - like me, would strategically default on agreements made, in light of the 'present' circumstances in their life.

As i've stated before - the material preservation of a decent standard of living for my family comes WELL before any opinion my neighbors, banks or indeed the state may have.

Like it or not!
Click to expand...

What if repossessions in Ireland were more speedy - say within 6 months of falling into arrears or restructured arrears - how would that affect your situation?
 
Have we got the source of 'strategic defaulters'?
Maybe I am hallucinating, but that chart up there - could merely be confirming that the country with the least houses for its population in substantially most of Europe, had the biggest rise in property prices because of the dumbest planning laws on the planet, and each buyer found they could afford the loan with what they were actually earning (interest rates had dropped substantially meaning your € paid off a bigger mortgage than previously that is until the a large number of people lost their jobs at same time ....and so the dumbest country in Europe then has the highest ratio of late stage arrears probably on the planet. (If you were repossessed you would not be in the stats).

So where is the source?
 
WizardDr said:
Have we got the source of 'strategic defaulters'?
Maybe I am hallucinating, but that chart up there - could merely be confirming that the country with the least houses for its population in substantially most of Europe, had the biggest rise in property prices because of the dumbest planning laws on the planet, and each buyer found they could afford the loan with what they were actually earning (interest rates had dropped substantially meaning your € paid off a bigger mortgage than previously that is until the a large number of people lost their jobs at same time ....and so the dumbest country in Europe then has the highest ratio of late stage arrears probably on the planet. (If you were repossessed you would not be in the stats).

So where is the source?
Click to expand...
 
DELBOY.
1. we agree there must be strategic defaulters, but figures quoted are not matched by facts.
Your graph on Late Stage Mortgage Arrears is not the issue. What the graph shows is we have a hell of a problem.
2. I think most people would have little time for leg-lifters who can, but choose not to pay.
BRENDAN.
1.I like your {deliberate defaulting } as it sorts out the can,t from the won,t pay.
DEMOIVRE.
1.We all agree that reckless lending by (professionals) has played a large part in this mess.
2.I thought we had funded the Banks to sort the bulk of arrears?

So if Repos become common we will have already funded Banks to sort, then the rehousing of the Reposseded will be funded by us, then the (lovely) market will buy repo,d homes at a discount .
In short mass Repo will re-re-cost us again!

BREAKONThru.
Inclined to agree.
 
Gerry Canning said:
DELBOY.
So if Repos become common we will have already funded Banks to sort, then the rehousing of the Reposseded will be funded by us, then the (lovely) market will buy repo,d homes at a discount .
In short mass Repo will re-re-cost us again!

BREAKONThru.
Inclined to agree.
Click to expand...
Thats not true- it has been pointed out time and time again that most of those in arrears have jobs. So they won't qualify for social housing and they'll have to go and rent in an area they can afford rather than default in an area/house thats beyond their current circumstances i.e. no cost to us again in most cases
 
Delboy said:
Thats not true- it has been pointed out time and time again that most of those in arrears have jobs. So they won't qualify for social housing and they'll have to go and rent in an area they can afford rather than default in an area/house thats beyond their current circumstances i.e. no cost to us again in most cases
Click to expand...
................
From what I read , it appears that Rents are too expensive in Dublin.
So someone moves , might be ok if that is where kids go to school or reasonably close to work.Might be ok if person can afford rent, might be ok if in so doing he isn,t left with large residual mortgage debt.Most of those in arrears are in jobs but have they enough to get beyond the working poor.

Yes they can move to Donegal.
1. Rent a good house for 600 per mth.
2. If they get a job, a good wage here is k25.
3. Won,t get a job = dole = housing costs that land on us !.
.......................


I have heard you frequently on AAM and do state that Moral Hazard means everyone should honour their debts, but what is the point in hanging people?.

This thread is about STRATEGIC DEFAULTERS , I take that to mean those who can but will not pay.
I do not think any poster has time for these boyos.
 
OTT again. It is possible to commute to an existing job in Dublin from Kildare, Meath even Laois!
You don't have to pack in your job and move to Outer Donegal!
 
So we don't have a source for this information.
And the chart merely reflects inaction on repossessions.
 
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