Eligibility UK & Irish state pensions

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Chewbacca

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This is probably a familiar situation so any advice appreciated. I worked a couple of years in Ireland in early 20's before moving to UK and worked there about 20+ years. I returned to Ireland a couple of years ago and intention is to remain. I know there have been some changes in the last few years but not sure of the effect on my own situation. I know that in the past I could maintain my eligibility to a UK pension by paying voluntary National Insurance contributions but I'm not sure if I can still be eligible for both a UK and an Irish pension in which is is worth my while maintaining contributions to UK state pension if I am working in Ireland paying PRSI, any advice or good links appreciated.

I also believe that having worked here for a couple of years in early 20's puts me in a worse situation than say someone who never worked here and works for the same subsequent period say 15 years until retirement age, is this correct, is there a way of calculating pension eligibility based on number of total contributions?
 
You can contact the Social Security in Sligo and they will give you a recap of your contributions and entitlelments

And, yes, if you worked in your 20s and then later, it doesn't help :-(
 
Chewbacca said:
. I worked a couple of years in Ireland in early 20's before moving to UK and worked there about 20+ years.
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Can you tell us:
-how many years working in Ireland
-how many years working in UK
-your age now

I will try to provide advice, but this information would be really helpful.
 
I doubt you'll be given any Irish pension, but will probably be told that the GB govt will take your Irish contributions into account
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
Can you tell us:
-how many years working in Ireland, circa 2.5 previously plus 1 so far now
-how many years working in UK, approx 26
-your age now, 51

I will try to provide advice, but this information would be really helpful.
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I know I could continue UK contributions but whether it’s useful to do as not sure with current legislation whether I’d end up with a full UK pension and partial Irish pension based on maybe 10 -17 years contributions if continuing working here?
 
Chewbacca said:
I know I could continue UK contributions but whether it’s useful to do as not sure with current legislation whether I’d end up with a full UK pension and partial Irish pension based on maybe 10 -17 years contributions if continuing working here?
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As a general rule, it's almost always worth while making voluntary pension contributions. But why not answer Coyote's straightforward questions so he'll be able to give you some informed advice?
 
Chewbacca said:
I did in the quotes above in my reply?
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Oops! I had assumed that they were his estimates! o_O

There's loads of info on the Irish State Contribututory Pension on the Citizens Information website. The info covers overseas PRSI contributions.

The key point to note is the eligibility requirement for you to have made 10 years' paid PRSI contributions before you reach pension age.

Here's the link:- https://www.citizensinformation.ie/...etired_people/state_pension_contributory.html
 
Was about to start a similar thread. I'll ask the question in this one. If that's not ok, just let me know, and I'll start a different one.

Is it possible, to get a full UK pension, AND a partial Irish one?

I've been told yes and no by various people. I already have enough NI years to get full UK one. I have 17 ish years of PRSI contributions.
 
Lisgoold said:
it possible, to get a full UK pension, AND a partial Irish one?
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Yes, in some circumstances you can get two full ones.


Chewbacca said:
I know I could continue UK contributions but whether it’s useful to do as not sure with current legislation whether
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Important thing is for you to get to ten years PRSI in Ireland which should be age 59. Then you get minimum pension of 40% of full rate at 66. If you work to 66 you'll get more or less pro rata more.

In meantime pay £3 a week UK Class 2 NI contributions until you get to 35 years total. This will get you a full UK pension. Don't delay on this as there are cut-off dates.
 
To add to this a little bit. I theory can combine your UK (NI) and Irish (PRSI) paid contributions to get one pension or the other. Imagine at retirement age you had 26 years UK NI contributions and 9 Irish PRSI contributions. You would get no state pension at all in Ireland as you wouldn't have the minimum 10 years. So you could use those 9 Irish PRSI contributions and add them to your 26 UK NI contributions to get you to 35 years which is what you need for a full UK state pension.

But for @Chewbacca this wouldn't make sense, especially with voluntary NI contributions. With 26 paid and 9 voluntary UK NI contributions he should have 35 years and get a full UK new state pension of £179.60 a week (€210 at current exchange rates). With 18.5 years Irish PRSI contributions by 66 he should get €161.80 as someone with between 15 and 19 years of paid PRSI contributions. As you can see, the OP will be much better off (€210+161.80=€371.80) having worked in both UK and Ireland than if he had worked in Ireland his whole career, as the full Irish contributory state pension is only €248.30. (Just to add, both the pension rates and exchange rates will fluctuate a bit in future, but I cannot see this differentially disappearing.)

In general you are much better off moving to Ireland having worked in the UK, than the other way round. If you leave the UK voluntary Class 2 NI contributions are incredibly cheap at £3 a week and you can make voluntary contributions after having worked there only three years. If you move from Ireland to the UK you can make voluntary PRSI contributions but you need to have worked in Ireland at least ten years first, and the voluntary contributions are at 6.6% of your last year's gross earnings.

Finally, you cannot make voluntary contributions in both the UK and Ireland at the same time that generate an eligibility for a state pension. But you can (like the OP) make paid contributions in one and voluntary in the other at the same time.

I might do a key post on this some time but it needs some more homework.
 
@NoRegretsCoyote
Thanks for the detailed response. A lot of useful information there.

I managed to find a lot online , about where someone has worked in two or more countries, and how in a lot of cases , you can combine the contributions. I've never seen a definitive answer about one full, and one partial though.

I have my record of contribution from Sligo. I've read about the new way of calculating . Using either the old or new method, in theory, I have enough to get something. At a face to face meeting in Cork social welfare they wouldn't confirm that though. I wasn't looking for a figure, just if it was likely to pay anything.

I'm sure I've read on either gov, or citizens info site, that you were only eligible, if you were NOT eligible for a full pension elsewhere. I can't find that now though.

If only allowed one, in theory, I'd probably be better off foregoing the UK one altogether, (full), and using some of those years to make the Irish one full.

Though I'm not sure how that could work, as my SP age in UK is 66, and, I think , 67 in Ireland? Born 1959.
 
Lisgoold said:
I have my record of contribution from Sligo. I've read about the new way of calculating . Using either the old or new method, in theory, I have enough to get something. At a face to face meeting in Cork social welfare they wouldn't confirm that though. I wasn't looking for a figure, just if it was likely to pay anything.
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Ireland has a wide range of Social Welfare schemes and it's understandable that a SW Officer in a Cork public office wouldn't be fully up to speed about the criteria for pension eligibility. If you want to establish the full facts about any SW scheme you really need to study the Operational Guidelines for that scheme, which can be found on the gov.ie website. This is the document that is used by the Officials (Deciding Officers) who decide whether or not to award a pension. (Alternatively, you could just ask Coyote! :p )

Operational Guidelines: State Pension Contributory

www.gov.ie www.gov.ie
 
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Ireland, about 17 years. UK currently 31 . Still working. The 35 year thing is not relevant, only for people starting after 2016. Everyone else is on a sort of hybrid system. I have enough contributed pre 2016 to get slightly over the new state pension figure. Worked in Ireland 1990 to 2007 , and again for one full year 2010.
 
@NoRegretsCoyote That's great information, many thanks for such a detailed reply. I thought UK had become 37 years contributions but whether 35/37 that's what I'll be doing. I think it was restricted a few years back that you can only retrospectively pay back contributions of 3/5 years prior which is fine for me.

How many years contributions are required for a full Irish pension, if I go over the 10 year minimum and reach 15 years what is that a proportion of?

Think this would be a useful Key Post/Sticky as there must be so many people in this situation, thanks again
 
Chewbacca said:
@NoRegretsCoyote That's great information, many thanks for such a detailed reply. I thought UK had become 37 years contributions but whether 35/37 that's what I'll be doing. I think it was restricted a few years back that you can only retrospectively pay back contributions of 3/5 years prior which is fine for me.

How many years contributions are required for a full Irish pension, if I go over the 10 year minimum and reach 15 years what is that a proportion of?

Think this would be a useful Key Post/Sticky as there must be so many people in this situation, thanks again
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There are 2 calculation options , but I think the likely one for you will be 1/40th of a State Pension for each year of contributions. So 15 years would get you 15/40ths .
 
Chewbacca said:
I thought UK had become 37 years contributions but whether 35/37 that's what I'll be doing.
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For the new state pension it still looks like it's 35. You'll need to send off a form NI38 to HMRC. Response can be slow, about 5-6 weeks in my experience.

Chewbacca said:
How many years contributions are required for a full Irish pension, if I go over the 10 year minimum and reach 15 years what is that a proportion of?
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I think what @Conan says is right. But the precise rules are not very clear.


Lisgoold said:
Ireland, about 17 years. UK currently 31 . Still working. The 35 year thing is not relevant, only for people starting after 2016. Everyone else is on a sort of hybrid system. I have enough contributed pre 2016 to get slightly over the new state pension figure. Worked in Ireland 1990 to 2007 , and again for one full year 2010.
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If I read this correctly you are 62-ish and have 48 years either NI or PRSI contributions, so working continuously since the age of 14?

In any case I think you should just apply for Irish and UK pensions separately when you get to retirement age. The rules (both Irish and UK) are a bit more complex for someone of your age but if you have a contributory pension entitlement in Ireland you are entitled to it even if you have one in the UK too, and vice versa. Remember your second pension is taxable too!
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
For the new state pension it still looks like it's 35. You'll need to send off a form NI38 to HMRC. Response can be slow, about 5-6 weeks in my experience.



I think what @Conan says is right. But the precise rules are not very clear.



If I read this correctly you are 62-ish and have 48 years either NI or PRSI contributions, so working continuously since the age of 14?

In any case I think you should just apply for Irish and UK pensions separately when you get to retirement age. The rules (both Irish and UK) are a bit more complex for someone of your age but if you have a contributory pension entitlement in Ireland you are entitled to it even if you have one in the UK too, and vice versa. Remember your second pension is taxable too!
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Not sure what you mean by second pension is taxable. My understanding is that my UK pension will be taxed in UK and I'll get the normal UK personal allowance. Which makes the whole this a great deal. Happy to be corrected.
 
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